Really basic beginner question about lathe work...

[JonL]

Using my lathe has been a complete revelation; I've never had a hobby which felt so rewarding. I've never been artistic so for the first time I'm making things that are worth showing off, and it is a complete joy. One of the nicer things about the hobby is learning what the lathe is capable off (although being an ML7 I realise its not at the cutting edge...). I only used the vertical slide for the first time in the last few months, and it was like opening a whole new chapter.

Sorry for the ramble, here is the key question...

I've only ever mounted work in the chuck, I've a 3 and a 4 jaw. However sometimes I see photos of people mounting items in a sort of collett arrangement. I assume these are lathe specific and used whenever you are working on really small items? Can anyone talk me through what is involved in this system? I assume I'd need one specific to the Myford, and also a number of different sized colletts? Do many people on this forum use them?

This is the sort of thing I've seen:



Thanks for any guidance you can give.

[Deleted]

Collet sets come in different sizes, ER25 is a versatile size, collets range from 1-16mm, or imperial equivalent. I'm not sure what the spindle size/type is on your lathe, if Morse taper then just buy a collet chuck with a matching Taper. If it's something else and you can't find a suitable chuck you could buy a collet chuck with a straight shank that fit's your 3 jaw, not ideal but it will do the job. Others who own Myfords I'm sure can advise you better...

regards

Pete

[JonL]

Presumably then something like this would be right for mine;
www.myford.co.uk/acatalog/NEW-ER32-COLLET-CHUCK-WITH-FULL-SET-OF-ER32-COLLETS-21955er32.html

Interesting. With an upcoming wedding I can't afford anything like that yet but its a good one to have as a suggestion to Santa!

[Deleted]

looks like it, others may know of cheaper alternatives.. I bought a cheap plain shank ER25 chuck for less than £10 and a set of 2-16mm collets for £15, both from ebay.... you can buy the collets individually too.

[JonL]

Thats interesting; as you say it could be that I hold the shank in my 3 jaw. That cost saving is quite large...

Either that or I have a crack at making some of the components myself... eeek

[Deleted]

There are cheaper options than buying from Myford, do a search on eBay, most of the big players have ebay shops....if you don't need the larger ER32 you could get the ER25 which is cheaper

Pete

[mbrown]

Have a look at RDG Tools website - they might be a bit cheaper, but probably not a great deal less. I have an ER32 collet set for my ML7 and the collet chuck screws onto the mandrel like a "normal" chuck. That minimises overhang. But it is still a few thou out and I suspect I might have greater accuracy with a collet chuck fitting into the Morse taper.

There are some jobs for which it is really useful - I like collets for holding delicate items that would be distorted in a 3-jaw. But, to be honest, I got by fine for 45 years without collets and even now I use them rather more than I actually need them.

Best wishes

Malcolm

[coniston]

Hi Nobbysideways, I have an ER25 collet chuck and collets I use on my Myford Super7. the chuck is threaded with an internal Myford nose thread and register so just screws on in place of a chuck. it is reasonable but not 100% concentric which is really why you would use a collet chuck in the first place. It is one like Warco sell here: www.warco.co.uk/myford-lathe-tools/257-er-25-collet-chuck.html. I also have a genuine Myford quick release collet chuck which is a joy to use but probably expensive if you can get hold of one.

The main reason as mentioned for using a collet chuck is the ability to hold material absolutely concentric with the lathe mandrel. Only the very best and most expensive self centering chucks will come close. (usually round although some collets are available for square and hexagon). there is no point in holding a collet chuck in a 3 jaw chuck unless the 3 jaw runs absolutely concentric. Another benefit of the collet chuck is its ability to hold the material much more securely without so much pressure due to the much greater surface in contact.

Hope this helps

Chris D

[jma1009]

Myford produced a set of collets held into the mandrel via a screwed cap that fits the screw thread on the mandrel nose. I use them on my Dore Westbury vertical mill which has a Myford type end of the quill.

Mine are secondhand but in their original wooden box, and I gather they are rather expensive these days.

The Myford collets reduce overhang and are very simple to use.

Other products and home made solutions are apparent from the above posts, but I expect most Myford owners would suggest using the Myford collets. I am a bit of a dinosaur, and have never used collets in the lathe apart from once in 1983! And that was on one of Arthur Grimmett's lathes when I was threading the ends of the stainless piston rods with a coventry die head, and then turn the pistons to their OD once fitted to same. I subsequently had to fathom out a different method for subsequent locos, necessity being the mother of invention.

Clocking a 4 jaw chuck I find relatively quick and 'spot on'.

Cheers,

Julian

[delaplume]

Hello all-------As some of you may know I tend to "Buck the trend" a bit and for many years I have advocated the Boxford lathe rather than the traditional Myford......Taper roller headstock bearings---a bedway with both a Vee and flat tops, induction hardened slides etc..

.But for my money it's the lovely drawbar collet chuck kit that they supply....It has an adaptor that fits directly into the spindle nose along with a screwed removal piece that automatically ejects the adaptor without damage......Naturally everything has a ground finish so repeated concentric accuracy is assured..

......During my 3 1/2" gauge days I'd use this for mass-producing the wheel seats on the 3/4" dia steel axles.......My current big lathe is the Chester Craftsman with a nice big No.4 morse up the spout but they don't do a drawbar adaptor ---- so I'll be making one....

PS}--- The Boxford  collets are hollow so any length of bar can be held----Some drawbar collets have a closed end thus limiting the length of job being held....

[don9f]

Hi, like Malcolm I have used my Myford lathe for many years without collets....until I bought an ER32 set for it from RDG at the recent Midlands Show.
I have two old 3 jaw chucks that are now worn and don’t hold things very true....hence the change to collets.

Although at first I was a bit unsure about the apparent slightly slack fit of the backplate to the spindle nose, I’ve read that this isn’t necessarily a problem and that the thread profile actually centres the backplate. I must say that after removing it and refitting it several times, it settles in the same place each time with less than 1 thou runout and I’m therefore quite happy with it and have used it in anger quite a bit.

One thing to watch out for though is that one of my collets which was marked 10 to 9mm, when unwrapped proved to actually be an 8 to 7mm !
RDG replaced it the next day at no charge, so all was then well.

Cheers Don

[ettingtonliam]

Collets aren't essential kit IMHO. Nice to have but not essential. I've managed for over 50 years without using them on the lathe, although I do use draw in collets on the mill for toolholding, and could, I suppose, use the 3MT ones in a 4-3MT reducer with a suitable draw bar, in the lathe.
The idea is that they are more concentric than a 3 jaw is, most 3 jaws being 2 or 3 thou 'out' Cheap Chinese collet holders which screw on to the mandrel or fit in the Morse taper of the spindle do not necessarily produce results any better than a 3 jaw. Some do, some don't, its a lottery.Once upon a time, collet holders supplied as 'after market' parts for an existing lathe were supposed to be finish bored when mounted on the lathe. This certainly would give absolute concentricity (as good as most people could measure anyway), so long as the holder was only used on the lathe it was bored on.
I just don't see the point of parallel shank collet holders held in a 3 jaw chuck. Inaccuracy will be the sum of the the chuck's inaccuracy plus whatever inaccuracy the collet holder itself has. Yes you could use one in the 4 jaw, but this would mean setting the body to run true to less than a thou each time you used it. Doable, and increasingly easy with practice, but a faff all the same.

[JonL]

Ok, so it would appear its a "nice-to-have" but isn't going to hold me back to not own them. As for using a different type of lathe, on my budget had I not been left one in a will its an item I could never have afforded so am grateful for anything I can get hold of! Also having grown up with this lathe there is a certain amount of nostalgia that makes me cling to it and its foibles.

Thanks for all the advice all, it's been an education. Model Engineering Forums at their finest.

[uuu]

At the Pumphouse, John trued up his screw-mount collet with a Dremel grinder held in the toolpost, set over at the taper angle.

I too wanted a collet system that ran true, and bought an EMCO ER25 fitting, and made a Myford backplate for it. On buying a bigger lathe, I've made a new backplate.

But, as others have noted, these are not used a great deal.

Wilf

[jasonb]

The chuck you show is actually a 5C chuck and has several advantages over ER systems as they were designed for workholding unlike ER that were originally for tool holding

Advantages of 5C

5C is nice for close work on small parts as there are no jaws swinging round,
5C Hex and square collets available and if doing a lot of square work you will grip it the same every time whereas a independant 4 jaw will not if two jaws are opened then closed.
5C have a larger capacity than ER32 and even ER40
5C will hold short work down to 1mm long
5C backstop available for batch work.
5C standard chuck key to tighten not two spanners
Smooth nose so nothing to catch if hand working eg filing or using a graver.

Advantage of ER
ER will grip odd sizes
ER can also be used in the mill for tool holding


3-jaw & 4-jaw are not good for thin wall parts which will be distorted, collets hold all round

3-Jaw quicker to change sizes than collets and easier to insert long stock

Don't use shanked collet holders as you can only hold shortish work as the spindle bore will be blocked by the shank and drawbar.



I use the 5C a lot for small work even though my 3-jaw has less than 0.001" runout, 4-jaw occasionally where accuracy is really needed but most of the time it is only for odd shaped or large square work. I also have a 5C to ER 32 adaptor so can use the ER collets in the 5C if I don't have the 5C size needed.

[simplyloco]

No mention so far of split bushes: I have a box of them. Accumulated over the years. From 1.0 mm to 60mm!
Lest we forget..Turn the bush in the 3 jaw, mark the bush and chuck, remove and hacksaw at the mark, and replace at the mark on the chuck. Perfect every time!
John

[chester]

Also with a split bush a counter bore in the end and you can face or clean up very thin parts and keep them parallel.

[delaplume]

Hello everyone---

Here is the Boxford drawbar collet set that I mentioned earlier..It can also be used on the Southbend 9 lathe as the spindle/nose assy is the same-------->
basho matsuo biography

[RGR 60130]

Nov 27, 2018 19:13:58 GMT delaplume said:

Hello everyone---

Here is the Boxford drawbar collet set that I mentioned earlier..It can also be used on the Southbend 9 lathe as the spindle/nose assy is the same-------

Be careful! I had a collet set and drawbar that came with a Boxford I had but the drawbar wouldn't pass through the spindle of a similar sized Southbend.

Reg

[abby]

Lots of advice and opinions but in fact you can buy a single 2 morse collet for about 8 quid , make a drawbar to fit your myford and thats all you need.
Buy the collets as required rather than buying a set.
True using these you could not put the work right through the headstock but then "horses for courses".
The benefit of using a collet is the ability to remove and replace the work with repeatable concentricity.
You would need a very good 3 jaw to do this , certainly better than any of mine (unless using soft jaws)
You could do this in an independent 4 jaw but it would be time consuming for multiple parts.
Dan.