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Post by thetfordtown on Nov 30, 2018 20:15:45 GMT
Just a warning to members not to pay any money in advance to John Clarke. He seems to think he can take your money and do no work. After a year of being told work was progressing on my engine I paid two instalments of £500. Finally decided to visit their works in Alford, Lincolnshire (8 hour round trip) only to discover nothing had been done. He lied to me on the phone. Always an excuse for delays....be careful if you use them. He promised to repay my £1,000 in 2 or 3 weeks...after 5 weeks I decided to start legal proceedings. See earlier threads on this forum which I wish I had read before using them.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2018 20:18:39 GMT
sorry to hear of this, this isn't new to members here... I think most on this forum are well aware of Lynx and avoid them at all cost...
Pete
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Post by Cro on Nov 30, 2018 20:45:50 GMT
I've heard this story many times over and even when they do do the work the quality is pretty awful from my experience of a friends loco.
I can recommend a few places that can do great work, feel free to PM me if you want to discuss it not on here.
Adam
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,871
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Post by Midland on Nov 30, 2018 20:55:21 GMT
I think I need to help some of you on this front. Lynx Model Works was dissolved 21 November 2018. If this is John Clarke he is bust. Correspondence address is Dovecote House, Main Road Maltby Le Marsh, Alford, Lincolnshire, LN13 0JP.
The IP is Ian Michael Rose
1st Floor Consort House, Waterdale, Doncaster, South Yorkshire, DN1 3HR
This is the second time he has done this according to Companies House.
Beware paying up front big sums = no working capital = unsustainable business!!!
Which means going bust once I have your cash!!!!!
Terribly sorry to say this but that is life!"
Uncheers David
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,871
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Post by Midland on Nov 30, 2018 21:04:48 GMT
Dear all
I thought I would add a few comments. If dealing with a small limited company you can go to Companies House and get all sorts of information about the company and more importantly the directors and more importantly their history. If you are prepared to send £500 into space you should at least check out the space. It can be good, it can be bad.
I have wound up a company, 2008 building crisis, and suffered but at least l learned the ropes. If any of you want to send thousands of pounds into space, send them to me please, I will send them to the Roger Loco works for bigger and better locos!!!!
Cheers David
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Tony K
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,573
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Post by Tony K on Dec 1, 2018 10:16:57 GMT
Just a warning to members not to pay any money in advance to John Clarke. He seems to think he can take your money and do no work. After a year of being told work was progressing on my engine I paid two instalments of £500. Finally decided to visit their works in Alford, Lincolnshire (8 hour round trip) only to discover nothing had been done. He lied to me on the phone. Always an excuse for delays....be careful if you use them. He promised to repay my £1,000 in 2 or 3 weeks...after 5 weeks I decided to start legal proceedings. See earlier threads on this forum which I wish I had read before using them. Really sorry to hear that Thetford, a big hole in your pocket. Midland makes some good points which I agree with - although he has a slightly flippant manner, but accurate and well meant. Maybe you were thinking the up-front payments were there to give him assurance he would get his money. A repairer can always get his money - any repairer is in possession of your loco until you pay, which ought to be worth more than the repair. Having said all of the above, I have known several jobs which have been done by so-called professional repairers, but yet to find one that was good value for money and completed to a high standard. It is not always possible due to pressure of time etc. but probably better to get assistance within a club and do it yourself. Thank you for bringing this to our attention - it takes guts to show your errors on a forum like this. Everything is always very clear afterwards. I hope you now have your loco back and can get it fixed ready for next season. |
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Post by ettingtonliam on Dec 1, 2018 14:05:22 GMT
Yes, I hope you've got your loco back, once a company goes bankrupt and the Official Receiver takes over, he freezes onto any assets there may be on the premises, and the rightful owners can have the devil of a job recovering them. Years ago, we got wind that one of our subcontractors was about to go belly up, and he had some of our tooling and equipment on his premises. We had to go down mob handed with a lorry and a gang of blokes to get the stuff back, just ahead of the Receiver, and had a tough job because we weren't allowed to use the overhead crane, and our stuff was behind a pile of other stuff.
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Post by simplyloco on Dec 1, 2018 15:04:07 GMT
Midland makes some good points which I agree with - although he has a slightly flippant manner, but accurate and well meant. David has many good points, but like me, he doesn't like being patronised. He is also far more qualified than most on here to comment on business matters. I wish that I possessed a Commerce degree and an MBA, just like wot he does... John |
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,871
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Post by Midland on Dec 1, 2018 15:43:12 GMT
Tony
You may find some of remarks a little flippant although I think you meant another word. Flippant is "superficial, facetious or dismissive" and I was not any of that.
But my main point is that until you have seen the effects of bankruptcy on the victims, the sheer despair at having one's trust broken notwithstanding the financial side you will realise that any sense of sympathetic joviality is welcome. I saw a lot of this during my time in construction adjudication and I had to interview both the bankrupt and the creditors on many occasions. Yes, I saw a few tears of dismay and I saw anger but I also saw a lot of self-recrimination, “How could I have been so stupid . . etc”. And relationships destroyed in a flash.
This forum is not the place to write a dissertation on bankrupt behaviour but as a simple bit of advice, if you not going to walk away with your goods in your hand make sure you have a side letter clearly stating that the item’s title is vested in yourself. Show that to the IP (Insolvency practitioner) and he/she will let you take your goods. Make it detailed and inclusive. And one other thing, peruse the free pages at Companies House for the name of who you are about to trust and see what has gone on before. And before you ask, I have had a company bankrupted, in 2008 in the housing market crash!
Cheers David
And a PS, if you are paying in installments simply say in your letter that you get title on payment of the first installment. The IP is not there to judge, just administer a contract.
Sorry about this but have to add a little more.
If we are talking about Company Number 05140767, Lynx Model Works Limited started a CVA in 2013 and was in it for 2 years until 16 March 2015. But winding up had started on 20 February 2015 with a dissolution 21 Nov 2018. That last date fooled me. So it appears the CVA failed. At the time of the CVA starting they owed HMRC some £122,646.
The Statement of Affairs dated February 2015 showed debts of about a quarter of the million. In Aug 2018 the final meeting was held, Realistions at £4,800 and cost of doing the job, yes £4,800.00
His company is now LYNX MODEL PAINT AND MACHINING SERVICES LIMITED trading as Lynx Model Works. This was subject to a compulsory strike off but then reversed but they seem not to ever have filed accounts. He also has Lynx Model Boilers Limited with accounts and reports overdue. Same again for Lynx Model Restorations Limited, another disaster.
So it is the Paint and Machining Services with whom you may have a contract, so go for them to get some money back. I could not suggest anything illegal of course but if you know a local rugby team that could come along they could help carry your goods away for you.
Cheers David
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Post by delaplume on Dec 1, 2018 17:40:54 GMT
Hello everyone,
A bit of a grim smile from me on this one----Those who have been on the forum for some time might remember how I first came here by way of asking for help regarding Lynx and was castigated in no uncertain manner for merely asking the question..........Unbeknownst to me at that time there was a real fear that Lynx might litigate against the Forum owners for possible libel by allowing people to report their experiences without substantiating their claims.......Catch 22 !!
I also had paid some money up-front for promised work which never materialised BUT---I was able to receive some items against an agreed reduction in price....Eventually I withdrew having enough parts ( but not the ones originally quoted for ) to balance the monies paid...
During the 2-3 years it took, I met several good people on this forum and elsewhere, some of whom are now valued friends....At one stage he was re-visiting your Credit card to extract more payments without telling you he'd done so !!...... I actually visited him at the workshop to collect parts only to be told they hadn't done them despite it being by appointment....No tea either !!!
Then there is the saga of the Modelworks Duchess locos to be finished......or the late Ray Tranter's Castle for finishing and painting.....But that's for others to relate to you......
Like a lot of Clubs these days mine ( Oswestry ) is a "Company Limited by Guarantee" which as a Committee member and Treasure makes me a Director of that Company too............As an Ex-Military person ( RN Engine Room Artificer ) I value a person's integrity above all else ( John, I think you are of the same mind on this one ??) and to see the cavalier way in which Mr. Clarke handled his customers hard-earned money and long-time built models made me sick to the stomach.........Most of his customer base are of Pensionable age and are from an era that produced a trusting nature....
Yes dear Forum member....... be aware, be VERY aware of the history to date and take heed of David's good counsel....
I'm very happy to be the first to "Like" this post---well done matey !!
Alan R
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Post by ettingtonliam on Dec 1, 2018 20:27:09 GMT
Tony Y ou may find some of remarks a little flippant although I think you meant another word. Flippant is "superficial, facetious or dismissive" and I was not any of that.
But my main point is that until you have seen the effects of bankruptcy on the victims, the sheer despair at having one's trust broken notwithstanding the financial side you will realise that any sense of sympathetic joviality is welcome. I saw a lot of this during my time in construction adjudication and I had to interview both the bankrupt and the creditors on many occasions. Yes, I saw a few tears of dismay and I saw anger but I also saw a lot of self-recrimination, “How could I have been so stupid . . etc”. And relationships destroyed in a flash.
This forum is not the place to write a dissertation on bankrupt behaviour but as a simple bit of advice, if you not going to walk away with your goods in your hand make sure you have a side letter clearly stating that the item’s title is vested in yourself. Show that to the IP (Insolvency practitioner) and he/she will let you take your goods. Make it detailed and inclusive. And one other thing, peruse the free pages at Companies House for the name of who you are about to trust and see what has gone on before. And before you ask, I have had a company bankrupted, in 2008 in the housing market crash!
Cheers David
And a PS, if you are paying in installments simply say in your letter that you get title on payment of the first installment. The IP is not there to judge, just administer a contract.Again from my time in construction, when paying for steelwork fabricated off site, not only should there be a letter confirming that title to the goods vests in the client(you) upon payment, but there should be a detailed inventory of the items, and each item of goods should be clearly labelled with the clients name and project number where applicable. Ideally, there is a letter back from the sub contractor agreeing to all of this. For big items we used to insist on them being stored in a fenced off area again clearly labelled with the clients name. Obviously this won't apply for a model loco. |
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Post by steamlaser on Dec 1, 2018 21:22:25 GMT
Excellent advice given by Midland and others.
In my dealings with companies on behalf my employer, if the main Contractor or sub Contractor would not provide a suitable paper trail he/she did not get the job. The situation is more difficult for the ordinary person and it may prove more difficult insist on a suitable paper trail. However always getting some sort of written agreement is better than nothing.
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by smallbrother on Dec 1, 2018 22:37:07 GMT
When I started in this hobby in 2009 I bought my first loco at Station Road Steam. I drove over 4 hours to view it thinking I would then have to arrange payment and a courier to deliver it.
Mike Palmer said just write us a cheque, people are honest in this hobby. So I wrote the cheque and drove home with the loco.
Dear me, what is going on in this world?
Pete.
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Post by Boadicea on Dec 2, 2018 10:00:13 GMT
...edit Mike Palmer said just write us a cheque, people are honest in this hobby. So I wrote the cheque and drove home with the loco. Dear me, what is going on in this world? Pete. I think that is part of the problem Pete - there is a very trusting culture within the hobby. This is good - but it seems to have helped this bloke to cheat people for at least 8 years and with, it looks like, two different companies. A friend had problems 8 years ago - he said his credit card kept being used and the repair was very poor. From what Delaplume says, there is much history. Yes, what did happen to the Duchess locos - surely the owners were not cheated twice, by both Modelworks and Lynx! Everyone is innocent until proved guilty - but we think he is guilty and we all know he will get away with it - don't we? |
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Post by Rob on Dec 2, 2018 11:01:17 GMT
The part that I'm perhaps not understanding in this relates to the continued use of the credit card.
Surely this is fraud/theft, and a criminal offence? Regardless of bad business practice the consequences of which these people always seem to wriggle out of, I'd assume fraud/theft would be much more difficult to get away with.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2018 11:45:18 GMT
The part that I'm perhaps not understanding in this relates to the continued use of the credit card. Surely this is fraud/theft, and a criminal offence? Regardless of bad business practice the consequences of which these people always seem to wriggle out of, I'd assume fraud/theft would be much more difficult to get away with. You are correct Rob but I doubt it's rarely followed up. businesses that have your card details can charge multiple amounts of their 'floor limit' as set by the bank concerned, or at least they could in years past. Many years ago I had a hire car firm charge my card illegally to a total of £360, their floor limit was £60 and they charged my card that amount 6 times one after the other. A long story short, this was over a dispute on an excess charge that was never written on the paperwork at the time of signing. The 4x4 that I had hired was hit while parked (drunken pikey driver arrested soon after when hitting other cars and ending up buried in a tree), I foolishly called the hire company to tell them. When I dropped the vehicle off they demanded more money than had been signed for, in fact, they had 'doctored' their copy of the agreement, I refused and later that day they used my card details 6 times up to their floor limit which doesn't need a signature, this was before chip and pin. I found out when receiving my next statement, I informed the bank of the facts sending them my original copy of the agreement, the money was returned with an apology from the bank, I have no idea what or if any action was taken against the hire firm... I would like to think that it was... Pete |
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Post by delaplume on Dec 2, 2018 13:11:53 GMT
John Clarke used to be on this Forum but a quick check shows that he no longer is ---- but might still be under another name, perhaps ??
If you are here John would you care to comment ??.....To paraphrase the BBC}--- "Let's maintain a balanced thread"...
He's also been very active within his local community over in Mablethorpe down the years --https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-12007888
Don't get me wrong..I think that the concept idea behind Lynxx Model Engineering is quite good ie}--- An engineering company set up to help Model Engineering folk in various aspects of the Hobby, BUT his Business sense and Fiscal acumen are clearly lacking....Robbing Peter to pay Paul etc...
I just wish that someone from outside of his family, with a proven track record, had been brought in to save Lynx at that time......We would all be the better for it--and so would the Hobby itself...
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Post by silverfox on Dec 2, 2018 15:33:58 GMT
Peter Buried in a tree?  This needs more info |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2018 16:06:06 GMT
I don't know any more than that Ron.. the guy hit my hire car, a brand new Shogun that I had used to go to Cornwall on a family holiday, the kids wanted to take some friends. I managed to get the reg and reported it to the police, this was late in the evening. Police got back to me the next day to update me on the case. The guy had been arrested after burying himself into a tree in Wembley shortly after hitting the hire car, this after ricocheting off a number of other parked cars, I do know that he had no insurance, MOT or license, in fact, he was on his 3rd ban for driving while disqualified.....that's pikey's for you...lol
Pete
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Post by delaplume on Dec 2, 2018 17:06:49 GMT
John Clarke used to be on this Forum but a quick check shows that he no longer is ---- but might still be under another name, perhaps ?? If you are here John would you care to comment ??.....To paraphrase the BBC}--- "Let's maintain a balanced thread"... He's also been very active within his local community over in Mablethorpe down the years --https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-12007888 Don't get me wrong..I think that the concept idea behind Lynxx Model Engineering is quite good ie}--- An engineering company set up to help Model Engineering folk in various aspects of the Hobby, BUT his Business sense and Fiscal acumen are clearly lacking....Robbing Peter to pay Paul etc... I just wish that someone from outside of his family, with a proven track record, had been brought in to save Lynx at that time......We would all be the better for it--and so would the Hobby itself... I have just re-visited the Membership section and he is indeed still listed----------- john1949 --------So, if you want to try and get in touch with him there you are.....I know that to be correct as he sent me a PM back in 2013 or thereabouts... I said "Family" because at the time I visited the old workshop premises at Mablethorpe Industrial Estate I believe his Wife was Secretary of the main company and I was introduced to his Son who appeared to be in charge of the small group of Model Engineer "Emloyees".........I put Employees between asterisks as I suspect they may also have been shareholders as well, but I hadn't pursued that line of enquirery at the time.. Interestingly, Urban Legend has it he was a Police Inspector in a previous life........... make of that what you will !! |
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