5 inch gauge Scamp.

[lparris]

Hi All,

I have finally started work on building my 5" gauge Scamp. This is the first steam locomotive I've built.

Today I marked out (90% of the holes were already marked but a few weren't), punched and drilled all of the holes in the frames meaning they are now complete. I have to confess that I cheated and brought laser cut frames, as for me they were the most daunting part.

A picture should be attached of the now finished frames.

[Deleted]

A good start sir, I don't see using modern technology as cheating, to me it's just common sense, none of us will live forever. Add to this that full size were cut in batches with a hot cutter, fitted on a jig in batches of up to ten frames, slotted and drilled to spec, the same thing really.

Pete

[builder01]

Looks good so far!! Are the areas for the horn blocks already machined to size?

David

[smallbrother]

I started a Scamp about 10 years ago when I had done no metalwork in my life. I was getting errors in the 10s of thou so lost heart. I then saw a cheap boiler for a Juliet and realised there were lots of laser cut parts available so away I went on that.

I think if I had started with the frames like yourself I could maybe have kept the errors to within something acceptable. Who knows?

I thought the build was very well described by the designer - David Malcolm?

Anyway, best of luck,

Pete.

[lparris]

Hi all.

Pete - Very true! I will no longer brand myself as a cheater!

David - I think they are. I will double check on the drawings later.

Pete - This is my first proper metal work project. I have built a 5" class 20 from a kit and made a few small oscillating engines from a book I have. Therefore I'm going to take it slowly to try and prevent any silly errors. Yes, the design is described very well in one of the magazines (forgotten which one, maybe EIM?) I have been given some bound editions of the magazine with the build write up in. This is making the loco easier for me to build by giving my guidance.

Thanks,
Luke.

[Roger]

Hi Luke,
It's good to see another Steam Locomotive being built, I hope it will encourage others to take the plunge.

I agree with Pete about 'cheating'. I don't suppose anyone would claim that Swindon were cheating for using flame cutting, following a pattern rather than hacksawing out the frames? If they were making them today, they would be using modern methods. They would be mad to do anything else!

I think it's fair game to use whatever weapons are in your arsenal, whether that's outsourcing laser cutting, casting or using CNC. I could use entirely manual techniques, take much longer and end up with a less detailed model, but it pleased me to do it my way.
It's your build, with your goals, and to only please yourself. Make no apology for any of the choices you make, it's all good. There's no need to stop the clock in 1940, it's time to move on and be less pedantic about what's cheating or 'proper Engineering' or 'skill' only being about wielding ancient tools.

I look forward to seeing your progress.

[lparris]

Thank you Roger. Thats a really good wat to put it. I will be sure to remember that in the future.

Luke

[timo]

Luke,

Go for it! As Roger has said it is your build and you are perfectly at liberty to do it any way you choose.

Take time and trouble but don't beat yourself up about making mistakes, we all do. Even 'professionals' make mistakes. I have recently been watching some very interesting youtube videos made by professional machinists who video odd processes in their home workshops. On several occasions they have either made a mistake on video or commented that this is the second one as the first one was mucked up. It was quite comforting to see! Remember the difference between a professional and an amateur is that the professional gets someone else to pay for their mistakes.

Head back down below parapet.

Tim
(a rank amateur)

[simplyloco]

Jul 25, 2019 16:34:23 GMT timo said:

Luke,

SNIP
Remember the difference between a professional and an amateur is that the professional gets someone else to pay for their mistakes.

Head back down below parapet.

Tim
(a rank amateur)

Professionals don't get paid for mistakes when a fixed price has been quoted. I know: I have been there a few times!
John

[miken]

Luke, be aware that you don't have to stick to everything stated in the drawings. When erecting the frames, If they specify BA screws you can use metric . You can buy hexagon head high tensile metric screws a lot cheaper than BA for instance from ebay.
If you are at the track this Saturday you can have another go at driving Eland (if Harry gives you the chance).
MN

[Roger]

Mike makes a very good point about sticking to the plans, most of which selected the nearest convenient imperial size of stock. Don't assume that it's the 'right' size and that you have to use it when you can easily get a metric size that's closer. My frames are 4mm for that reason, but obviously you need to take any changes into account if they affect something else.

If you don't already have ME taps and dies, it's certainly worth considering going down the Metric route. I haven't used any Imperial sizes on my build at all, there are close equivalents to every size you would normally use ME threads for. ME threads were only created because the Imperial sizes of the time weren't suitable. Full sized locomotives didn't use BA or ME threads so you can't be accused of being 'non prototypical' if you choose Metric ones!

You can get Metric nuts and bolts with reduced heads from Knupfer in Germany, and of course you can source any Metric course threads from eBay.

You might also find that some detail parts could be much improved if you fancy adding a little flourish here and there. Things were often crudely built to make it as simple as possible to make, but at the expense of appearance.

You can treat the plans as a starting point or a guide to one way to make the locomotive, then branch off from there to do your own thing.

[kipford]

Excellent start, I concur with Roger use any weapon in your arsenal to achieve what you want. On my Aspinal I laser every possible part I could, some complex parts were reduced to fabrications to enable them to be lasered and ended up with around 200 parts. As you may guess I hate filing! Simplyloco is using 3D printed parts on his tender, I intend to do the same with loco name plates and similar.
Dave

[lparris]

Hi all,

Thanks for your replies. So far I have stuck more or less to the drawings, using the equivalent size drills if I don't have the size I need in the stated unit. I will bear in mind that it's ok not to stick 100% to the drawing for the rest of the build.
As for taps and dies I have a mismatch of different units. I am slowly sorting them out in to boxes depending on their unit. However from what I've done so far it looks to be that most of them are metric.

I'm hoping to order the BMS for the buffer beams later today, as well as the brass angle for the brackets. From what I've seen the brass angle only comes in metric sizes.

I'll keep updating this as and when any progress is made.

[timo]

Luke,

If you order apparent 'imperial' steel - angle flat etc, check it when you get it as it is probably metric and close but not exact. I found this out the hard way on Rainhill with the frames and had to alter the size of the frame stretchers (1/8" vs 3mm).

Tim

[Deleted]

Hi Luke

Beware of brass angle, in general it's not a true 90 degrees. Not a problem if you have a mill and machine vise, just cut to length and true up on the mill. A tip if I may, when working on the frames together, it's useful to bolt/rivet them together for any drilling operations. Clamps can move, you may have done this already for which I apologise for introducing grandma to sucking eggs....

Keep up the good work sir,

Pete

[Roger]

Here are a couple of handy charts showing the available Metric Coarse and Metric Fine sizes if you decide to go down that road. It's worth noting that there is often more than one pitch available in the Fine series, so you have a huge amount of choice. These are only the preferred sizes, you can also get finer ones, and of course there are intermediate less common Metric Coarse threads that you can readily get taps and dies for, ones like M7 for example.

So for 10mm, you can have Metric Coarse at 1.5mm pitch, Metric Fine at 1.25,1.0 and 0.75 pitches. I've also got M6 coarse at 1mm pitch, Metric Fine at 0.75mm and a non preferred 0.5mm pitch. So as you can see, the ME fine threads are basically obsolete. They are only used for historical reasons.

[RGR 60130]

Hello Luke,

SCAMP was the first engine I tackled some 25 years ago, a lot of it being made while I was at sea. A few points come to mind that may help you. Your laser-cut frames are probably approximately 3mm thick rather than 1/8" so you need to decide how you are going to handle the slight difference. I think I kept the distance over the outside of the frames as per the drawing on mine and made the stretchers slightly longer. The brackets on the buffer beams will then be slightly further apart too. SCAMP is a small loco for 5" gauge and a little bit of extra weight will help with traction. I used 3mm plate for the running boards with 3/8" square instead of angle along the edge. The supporting angles on the buffer beams will need tweaking a bit if you do this.
I have a feeling that the boiler, as originally designed, only had a 16SWG shell which was subsequently changed to 13SWG.
To help with setting the valve gear as per the instructions it is worth taking your time and getting the eccentric diameters correct.
Don't drill the holes in the stretcher for the valve rods until you have finished making the cylinder assemblies as errors may creep in.
A bit extra water capacity is useful so you may wish to consider making the water tanks a bit longer.

If anything else comes to mind I'll post it on here for your consideration.

Reg

[lparris]

Hi All.

Pete - I was going to rivet the frames together but found out that I'd ran out, hence why I clamped them. Even though all the holes are drilled I am still going to rivet them when I get some more in case anything else needs to be done.

Roger - Thank you for the links. I will save them for later use.

Reg - I had thought about the width difference when I first got the frames but then forgot about it! I'm going to order more than I need for the stretchers so that the frames can be built to the correct width. Thank you for reminding me.

Luke

[steamer5]

Hi Luke,
I use roll pins for holding the frames together, they are just a bit shorter than the frame thickness, that way they don't interfere with any work on them. You can punch them out & reinstall as required, just make the plates so they go back together the same way!
Yours will be short for 2 x 3 mm plates!

Cheers Kerrin

[lparris]

Quick update. Been busy with life recently so little work has taken place, however, the steel for the buffer beams has now arrived! (For some reason through the letter box even though I was in!) This now means that some work can now take place. When I get round to working on it I will post updates on here.