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Post by 92220 on Nov 7, 2019 13:50:19 GMT
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Post by ettingtonliam on Nov 7, 2019 15:20:42 GMT
A feed pump gauge to check if pump pressure exceeds boiler pressure? Anybody come across this before in UK loco practice, minature or full size?
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Post by delaplume on Nov 8, 2019 1:24:08 GMT
Hello all,
Understandably that's a fairly well known photo...and has had me baffled ever since I first saw it....
Fist off there are far more small tubes than is "normal"........
2) there are lots of return bends seen at the front end.....
3) it's as if the whole nest of tubes has been physically forced forwards due to a structural failure somewhere at the front and a huge force at the rear
4) Having just read the article this quote caught my eye}---- "the things that look like tentacles are the remains of the tubes that are normally filled with pressurised, super-heated water."......Note}--- not steam.
I'm going to stick my neck out here, hopefully thinking outside of the box and suggest that this an oil-fired, Water Tube type boiler that suffered a mis-ignition of the fuel oil / air mixture on initial start up..
I'm probably way off beam but it's a start....
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Post by delaplume on Nov 8, 2019 1:53:54 GMT
A feed pump gauge to check if pump pressure exceeds boiler pressure? Anybody come across this before in UK loco practice, minature or full size? If it's an injector feed then the output pressure is automatically set by design...........If it's a weir type pump ( piston displacement )-------https://www.combemill.co.uk/portfolio-item/small-steam-engines-weir-pump/ ---------then you'd need some means of monitoring the output pressure to confirm that water is being pumped actually into the Boiler.. |
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,720
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Post by mbrown on Nov 8, 2019 8:16:49 GMT
I think the caption Delaplume quotes is just incorrect - probably written by a journalist who got the story half right. They don't look like "small tubes" to me but much more like super heater elements. If I am right, they have been blown out through their flues and out of the front of the smoke box suggesting an explosion in the firebox. That would, I think, be consistent with firebox crown failure which in turn tallies with the "classic" American accident of low water level, as happened with some of the US 2-8-0s that worked over here in the War. I doubt if the crew survived if they were on board when it went up....
That's my interpretation, anyway!
Malcolm
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Post by 92220 on Nov 8, 2019 9:07:58 GMT
Looking at it again, it does look like superheater elements because many appear to have sharp return bends at the ends. However, there seems to be rather a lot for one boiler so perhaps the tubes were shredded as well.
Bob.
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Post by steamjohn248advent on Nov 8, 2019 9:34:13 GMT
Our locos all have 2 inje3ctors large and small del. and no feed pump so no feed pressure gauge. (as has been stated(.
However our 26 foot launch has injector, engine driven feed pump and hand pump. The feed pump pressure gauge is a must and lets the engineer know at once if the boiler feed pump is not doing its stuff. (all the more important since boiler water level is maintained automatically via float valve operated by pass
Why not fit a feed pressure gauge to a loco that has an axle driven pump/bypass arrangement. Small oil filled pressure gauges are commercially available for not a lot of gold and could be fitted in an inconspicuous position. (An ordinary non oil filled gauge does not last long of course).
John
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Post by delaplume on Nov 8, 2019 10:40:18 GMT
Looking at it again, it does look like superheater elements because many appear to have sharp return bends at the ends. However, there seems to be rather a lot for one boiler so perhaps the tubes were shredded as well. Bob. Hello Bob, OK, but how come there are so many return bends seen at the front ??........Whatever happened it must have been one helluva force.....the smokebox and chimney have completely disappeared !! Alan |
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Post by ettingtonliam on Nov 8, 2019 11:19:38 GMT
I too wondered about the large quantity of tubes/superheater elements in the photos.
That NASA report is extremely vague compared to any of the railway accident reports issued here in the UK, which would have gone into the occurrence in far more detail, including the suggestion that the footplate staff had had no formal training, and that the cleaning/checking of the gauge glass had not been done properly.
The suggestion that the tubes are water tubes seems to come from the Bressingham website rather than NASA, doesn't it?
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Nov 8, 2019 11:33:57 GMT
Hi All A fuller report is found here and is a good guide to what can fail in our gauges as well as the big ones. For example, do any of us do an accumulation test before running at our clubs. I know I do but some members do not. Do we check the hand pump or the injectors before coming onto the main line? The report makes informative reading about other aspects than just the boiler water level such as cleaning it! www.athra.asn.au/library/Loco_1278_Boiler_Explosion.pdfD |
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Post by Jo on Nov 8, 2019 11:52:01 GMT
For reference: That explosion was C&O T-1 #3020 outside Chillicothe, OH in May 1948."It happened on Charleston Pike, just south of Chillicothe. The fireman, brakeman and engineer were all killed by scalding water" on the C&O Railroad.
The pile of spaghetti are type E superheater elements that were thrown out due to a crown sheet failure. Other photos of the incident show that the elements were still attached at the upper portion of the smokebox indicating that the front end throttle and superheater header are still intact. The elements had been forced out of the superheater flues toward the front of the locomotive without separating them from the header.
The engine was rebuilt after the explosion.
Jo
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Post by ettingtonliam on Nov 8, 2019 13:31:47 GMT
So the photo at the start of this thread has got nothing to do with the accident report by NASA?
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960 
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Post by don9f on Nov 8, 2019 18:29:34 GMT
Hi, I think it is only related because it’s a photo of a boiler explosion....it was a bit confusing at first and it’s now obvious that the report linked to is not about the one in the first photo.
Cheers Don
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Post by delaplume on Nov 8, 2019 20:33:45 GMT
For reference: That explosion was C&O T-1 #3020 outside Chillicothe, OH in May 1948."It happened on Charleston Pike, just south of Chillicothe. The fireman, brakeman and engineer were all killed by scalding water" on the C&O Railroad. The pile of spaghetti are type E superheater elements that were thrown out due to a crown sheet failure. Other photos of the incident show that the elements were still attached at the upper portion of the smokebox indicating that the front end throttle and superheater header are still intact. The elements had been forced out of the superheater flues toward the front of the locomotive without separating them from the header. The engine was rebuilt after the explosion. Jo Hello everyone, Many thanks for that info Jo--------- I've done some Google research and found this......It's a bit lengthy but at least it now explains why there are return bends at the front and why there are so many tubes }-------- www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,3277430 Hello Reg, Not unlike some Marine types I think ?? |
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Post by ettingtonliam on Nov 8, 2019 20:45:41 GMT
Sorry Alan, how do we access what you are talking about on that site?
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Post by delaplume on Nov 8, 2019 21:37:40 GMT
Oh dear-------- and I particularly checked that link before posting....
Notice how those numbers on the end are in white, not yellow ??.............Not all of the full address has been carried over as a link....
Try scroll and clik "Go to" on the drop down menu..... but start from the R/H side so as to include those numbers..........I've just tried it and it worked for me ok......
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Post by chris vine on Nov 8, 2019 21:40:47 GMT
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