Thoughts on painting

[miken]

Next spring i plan on starting to paint my L&NWR compound loco.
This companies engines are famously all black.
I can't decide whether gloss or satin would be best for a miniature in this case.
Gloss black is an awful colour as it tends to highlight every speck and imperfection and painting isn't my best skill.
Im thinking about maybe doing the large flat top deck of the tender, Inside of the bunker and foot plate area in semi gloss and the ousides in full gloss. But then I think that might look odd.
Any opinions on painting an all black tender engine anyone?
Mike

[Tony K]

A difficult one Mike - very much down to personal preference.
For me - I like semi-gloss and I think it just looks more appealing.
That said, full size came out in gloss.
One of the locos from our club at the Midlands Exhibition in semi-gloss (satin)

[simplyloco]

Satin for me because I am of the view that gloss toys look like toys... No contest and the Stirling will be the same!
John

20190628_150420 - Copy by inkaboat, on Flickr

[ettingtonliam]

Satin finish is my view. When its been wiped over a few times with an oily rag after running, it gets that dull shine the full sized ones had after they had been out of the paint shop a couple of months.

[oldnorton]

Personal preference is what makes the world go around?

For me the satin ones are the toys and gloss is the real thing, especially when it is oily and wiped down :-)

[builder01]

I would pick satin every time. Satin is still a bit shiny.

20190621_162915 by Builder16, on Flickr

David

[barlowworks]

Hi Mike, personally I would get a tin of satin and a tin of gloss and mix the two together to give a just off gloss finish. Just remember that it will dull down further after cleaning after a few runs. I think the LNWR took a pride in their locos and would always have them polished up by the works, a bit like their big rival the Midland.

Mike

[mbrown]

I have had good results using satin black for things like smokebox, running boards, inside the coal space, cab roof etc, where in reality it is unlikely to be gloss for long whatever paint was used at first, and gloss for bits that would have been kept shiny. After a few steaming and wipe-downs, the level of gloss appears similar, but photos show a rather different finish with a degree of contrast.

For the satin black, I used Humbrol "coal black" which used to be called "dirty black". Unfortunately, I think it is only available in tinlets- I ended up buying a lot....!

Malcolm

[kipford]

Mike

I agree with the others a satin finish looks about right. However the way I and some of my fellow 4mm scale club mates do it is to paint the loco with gloss paint. The gloss finish makes it much easier to line out the loco either with paint or transfer. It gets  sealed with satin or in some cases matt varnish. Attached photo of our GWR/LNWR 4mm scale layout Hope-under-Dinmore shows the result. PS Not my work but one of my friends, but it is an LNWR loco.

EDIT IMG_1274a by Dave Smith, on Flickr


Dave

[92220]

What size model is it? If it is 5" or 3.1/2" then just 'off-gloss' looks good. A 5" loco can stand a higher gloss level than a 3.1/2" loco. You can achieve that by mixing a small amount of Gloss Black, say 50mls, into a larger amount, say 250mls, of Dull (eggshell) Black. You don't need much Gloss Black to alter the sheen of Dull Black, but you need to use more Dull Black to reduce the gloss level of Gloss Black, so add half the 50mls Gloss to the 250mls Dull, and try it. If it is still not right, add the rest of the 50mls. Hope that all makes sense!

Bob.

[Deleted]

As others have said 'full gloss' on a model in general is best avoided, the smaller the scale the more important this is. In film work all paint, gloss or satin is dirtied down and shaded where needed. I would, however, agree with Bob that for 5" models, full gloss can work but perhaps not when talking 'black'? although, of course, a lot is down to personal choice.
For my own model I will use full gloss for the coachwork, after all, it's a passenger express representing an era when the railway companies took great pride in their locomotive stock. For the black though I am going to try some 'auto' paint that's very tough, designed for car chassis's. It is called gloss but in fact when dried it's more of a polished satin, IIRC it comes out about 85% gloss. I have two types, one of which is duller than the other, this will be used on the smokebox, the other on the running boards. I have also used a third black which is a statin for the middle cylinder, the outside cylinders will also be painted thus once ready, with tge cladding having the same paint as the running boards.
Hopefully, some time next year I'll get the black painted and can then report back on the result.
As others have said the paint will soon tone down a little once in use.
At least, that's the current plan...

Pete

[jma1009]

Hi Mike,

As a contrary view, I personally prefer a gloss finish on the bits the public see, as befits a passenger loco of one of the large companies in late Victorian times.

I presume you know that LNWR 'black' has been described as 'blackberry', so wasn't plain black but a richer more complex colour.

It is highly unlikely that insides of the coal space etc would have been varnished, and the reason for varnish was that ordinary paint was not available as 'gloss', and was matt, hence the addition of varnish.

Cheers,
Julian

[chris vine]

Hi Mike,

You might already know that I really like full gloss on the "coachwork" parts of the loco. Yes, I know a lot of people prefer satin and, of course, you can do what you like!

I think a lot of people prefer satin because it is a LOT easier to get something which looks good. However the original engines were gloss on the boiler, cab, tender/tanks etc.

The toy/gloss argument has come about, I believe, because tinplate toys and plastic 00 engines have a lot of the detail moulded/stamped in. this gives reflections in all the wrong pages. (Imagine a pipe or handrails along the side of a boiler. It should be dark behind, but pressed in gloss paint shows up a bright, and unrealistic or toylike, line.

There are a couple of aspects to gloss painting which do in fact make it easier. So if you were hankering after a prototypical gloss finish, then these might help to sway you.
1, matt/satin is not so resistant to grazes. The little high bits rub off and look different afterwards
2, It is very difficult to touch in with satin, to get the same degree of flattening.
3, if you do need to touch things in somewhere, you cannot polish satin so that it matches the rest of the satin around it.
4, lining is certainly easier on gloss because it is easier to wipe off your mistakes while still wet!!!
5, different batches, or your mixes, may give different degrees of satin/matt.

You ask about having gloss and satin on the same engine. For me, I decided to keep things which "connected" with the same finish. However there are good places to change from gloss to satin. EG boiler gloss, smokebox satin.
Certainly the inside and top plates of the tender will look absolutely fine in satin. They will be dirty in any case and your eye won't see the join as there is a beading and lining between the finishes.

I kept the tops of the running boards/plates in satin as well. The chassis I did in a Trimite Machinery enamel, semigloss. This looks great and sprays really well and easily.
If you paint castings in gloss, they certainly look very weird as the gloss picks up all the graininess of the casting. Maybe lost wax castings would take gloss, but sand castings look poor - in my opinion only of course!!

Bob's knowledge of colours and livery schemes is brilliant. He will tell you the exact shade of black you need!

Hope that helps.
All best
Chris.

[miken]

Thank you everyone for you comments. All interesting and valid. I have plenty to think about over the winter.
MN

[dscott]

What a superb layout and yes we have much admired as we are also into the smaller gauges.
Says he recovering from a lug in (Between the showers) of our latest member of the household.
Yes a Jessie part built and months to decide upon a colour for her.

I have found great success with the super red from Halfords for painting your disc brakes. Also in Blue and
of course Black. We are within walking distance from Paint Services and currently have their satin Black
covering the Simplex Fowler Complex wheels.
I am trying the red just sprayed onto sanded and cleaned bare metal at the moment and cooked in the sun.

David and Lily.