Cleading of cylinders and insulation (?)

[rrmrd66]

Morning to you all

What is the sheet of metal wrapped around the cylinder called?

Is it cleading or something else?

My question is, is it normal practice to insulate the gap between the "cleading and the cylinder wall, with some thin insulating material, like is done for the boiler barrel.

Don Young's Hunslet shows  a section of material , like shim steel, but doesn't mention insulation.

What do others do?

Stay safe in these odd times.

Cheers

Malcolm

[andyhigham]

My view is just fit the cladding sheet. The air gap behind it is a reasonable insulator, much better than wet wadding

[rrmrd66]

Hi Andy

Thanks for this.

I have been following the overhaul of your Hunslet with interest.

Can't agree with you about Viton O rings for piston seals although the ME fraternity have got overall good results.

I tried to fit Clupert rings to my cylinders but was worried I was going to break them as I could not get them in,even with a proper piston ring compressor. In the end resorted to good old fashioned Braided Packing (not string, please sir) and they work fine on air.

Good luck with your method

Cheers

Malcolm

[andyhigham]

I have ordered conventional piston rings, I will modify the grooves and fit 2 in each, They are only £8 each from Blackgates

[delaplume]

Hi Malcolm,

The sheet metal that fits around both the boiler and cylinders has quite a few names depending on the Railway Company and the geographical location of the Fitters involved......

I've heard it call Cladding ( spelt "Cleading" ) or clothing.....On the full size loco there are a series of steel hoops attached to the Boiler's main pressure vessel material and it's on these that the cladding rests ......These hoops are known as "Crinolines" and follow the idea from a Victoian Ladies big, flouncy dress in which a series of lightweight hoops made from either whalebone or cane served the same function.......

With our models the Boiler insulation is fitted as per the full size but not neccesary repeated on the cylinders...although one of the Simplex locos in my works for repairs does have a cork liner fitted on the cylinders...

[andyhigham]

I stand by my statement about wet insulation, try taking something out of the oven with a damp oven glove. The cylinder area of our locos gets quite wet

[mbrown]

I have used woven asbestos insulation on cylinders (the dust suppressed stuff you used to be able to get from Reeves) and it has shown no signs of getting wet when I have removed it. I would have thought the heat of the cylinder block would keep it all dry. But I don't steam my locos as often as some and maybe the damp can accumulate.

My fabricated cylinders have very large cavities around, especially behind, the main bore and valve chest, and I was planning to fill them with some insulating material, but you have set me thinking now....

Malcolm

[ettingtonliam]

When I built my first loco, 'Juliet' about 1966, I remember attacking a piece of asbestos cement sheet with a coarse file, to reduce it to dust, then wetting it to form a stiff paste which I applied to the cylinders before fitting the cladding sheets.
Sigh. We knew no better at the time. I'd just seen a pair of big 'Robin Hood' heating boilers lagged similarly by professional laggers using bagged powdered asbestos.

[Jim]

Apr 14, 2020 9:56:02 GMT andyhigham said:

I stand by my statement about wet insulation, try taking something out of the oven with a damp oven glove. The cylinder area of our locos gets quite wet

I would agree with you there Andy. I used rock wool insulation on my 3" Burrell but removed it after a couple of years when I found it had become an oily sodden mess as it collected the usual drips and condensate that go with steam engines especially when working hard.

I now rely on an air gap with provision for any condensate to discretely escape being trapped by spacers for the cleading.

I've not noticed any change in performance in either the Burrell or the Britannia.

In the end though the decision rests with what you the builder feel most comfortable with.

Jim

[rrmrd66]

Hi Everybody.

Don Young's 5" gauge Hunslet

Help Please.

Continuing this thread on I now arrive at the cleading of the boiler barrel and the firebox.

I'm talking of nominal circumferential length of 22" x 14.25" longitudinal length for the barrel alone.

Don Young advises using 0.015" brass shim stock. This is not available from my normal supplier who suggests 26swg brass sheet (0.018")as being a near equivalent.

Together with the pieces to wrap the firebox they quote £123 which seems to me to be a bit on the high side and possibly unnecessary.

What do others use for cleading? Do you use brass shim of steel?

Bear in mind that there is a saddle tank covering most of the cleading.

Any helpful suggestions gratefully received.

Cheers

Malcolm

[simplyloco]

May 11, 2020 14:43:52 GMT rrmrd66 said:

Hi Everybody.

Don Young's 5" gauge Hunslet

Help Please.

Continuing this thread on I now arrive at the cleading of the boiler barrel and the firebox.

SNIP
Any helpful suggestions gratefully received.

Cheers

Malcolm

Hi Malcolm
That price is outrageous. My Brit is clad in 22G galvanised steel. Cheap as chips, easy to work, and it takes paint. My Stirling is clad in 26G Titanium: quite the opposite!
John

[barlowworks]

Hi Malcolm, just done a quick search on Ebay. There are quite a few suppliers of sheet brass, all a lot more reasonable than the price you were quoted. Hoping my maths is correct, the size you quoted in metric is 660mm x 450mm (or thereabouts). The thickness is about 0.45mm. A sheet of brass 800x500x0.5mm is about £40.00, 0.7 is about the same.

Mike

[delaplume]

Hi Malcolm---

Malcom High ( Model Engineers Laser ) supplies kits in both traditional Brass OR}----- ZINTEC ( www.buymetalonline.co.uk/product/zintec-steel-sheet-dc01-ze/ )....... Scroll down for a tech. description...

I've not used it myself yet --- still have a stock of Brass sheet obtained down the years ---- but it would appear similar to that used by John ( Simplyloco ) and he seems happy with the outcome....

Brass has been the "Material of choice" down the years but can be relatively costly in small quantities.....Back in the day Clubs would buy job lots and spread the cost between members or other Clubs......

[Roger]

I can't see why you can't use Steel sheet or shim. Ok, there's dampness, but there's also heat a plenty when it's cooling down, so I imagine Steel would be fine. It's cheaper than Brass and won't pick up dents as easily. It seems to me there's a natural tendency to choose Brass for just about anything as a default 'go to' material in ME. I suppose that's because it's so easy to cut, but that means it's also much easier to pick up damage.

[delaplume]

I think that the ready ability for Brass to take a solder is a major plus as well....

[Roger]

May 11, 2020 22:12:04 GMT delaplume said:

I think that the ready ability for Brass to take a solder is a major plus as well....

True, but solder is very weak and not really suitable for making anything that needs any mechanical strength. Fair enough when it's for caulking a water tank, but I wouldn't use it unless absolutely necessary.

[steamer5]

Just another idea.
If you have a roofing company somewhere close it could be worth a chat. This end of the world they tend to use hi tensile sheet, sorry can’t remember the thickness but it’s not very thick. Here the unpainted / finished version is called Zincalum, if it stands up to our climate then a boiler should be a doddle!

Cheers Kerrin

[rrmrd66]

Hi Kerrin

Google tells me it's:

"Zincalume steel is a premium metallic-coated steel product that consists of 55% aluminum, 43.5% zinc and 1.5% silicon. This coating gives it a lifetime of almost four times that of galvanized steel".

There is also a similar product called Galvalume available in the UK.

I will check it out.

Cheers

Malcolm

[RGR 60130]

I've previously used 5 gallon oil drums quite successfully. In practice, the hardest thing was to find one without a dent in it.

Reg