Hawksworth's 1501 Pannier Tank

[martyn1936]

Having been encouraged by Gary to start a new thread on my progress with David Adam's Paddington here goes.
I am Martyn Harrold and I am a member of Guildford Model Engineering Society.
I inherited a part built Paddington from the relatives of a friend of mine, Peter Breakwell, who was also a member of the Guildford Society. Peter used to work at the National Physical Laboratory and was an excellent engineer, far better than me. Whilst I cannot compete with the standards he set I am going to do my best and am happy to accept the challenge.
The engine has been 10 years in construction so far. Peter had made all of the bits for the chassis and whilst he had loosely assembled them he had not fitted them. The first job apart from getting up to speed on what was done or not done was to take the assembled parts off the chassis and then progressively fit them back on adjusting and aligning as necessary. Then it was another strip down to paint and blacken all of the parts before reassembly.
After carefully measuring the location of the ports and the dimensions on the bobbins the valves were adjusted and it now runs well on air. Equally well in each direction.
I knew nothing about Hawksworth's 1500 and not much more about GWR engines having been brought up on the Bullied Pacifics on the Southern Region. I don't know a lot more now and I am hoping you guys will give me some guidance and steer me in the right direction when I o off piste.
I want to build the model as 1500 or 1501 as they were originally built with the rear steps facing backwards. I understand the neither 1500 nor 1501 were ever lined which to my mind adds to the simplicity of the appearance.

I have been following Gary's excellent thread on Paddington and this has given me a real boost in confidence, seeing the feedback and knowledge passed on in this forum.

I only have David Adam's drawings to go by and very few photographs and I learnt yesterday that his back-head drawing is all wrong, as is his boiler. My boiler is made to the Adam's design.
I have tried to add some photographs of the engine but I cannot find a way to reduce the file size in One Drive. As soon as I have mastered that I will post some so you can see what stage I am at.
Martyn

[uuu]

This sounds exciting.

Roger's thread is an invaluable source of information. You don't have to read it all - it does dive off on tangents for pages at a time. But experiment with the search feature (once you have the thread open, next to "Actions"), and you can zoom in on points of interest. Search for "backhead" and just skim through, looking at the pictures, for example. There's quite a useful line drawing.

For photos, I've not found how to get OneDrive to embed in a page here so, like a few others, I use Flickr. You don't need to resize when uploading them - you can choose a size when generating the coded link.

Wilf

[Gary L]

May 26, 2021 13:22:29 GMT martyn1936 said:

Having been encouraged by Gary to start a new thread on my progress with David Adam's Paddington here goes.
I am Martyn Harrold and I am a member of Guildford Model Engineering Society.
I inherited a part built Paddington from the relatives of a friend of mine, Peter Breakwell, who was also a member of the Guildford Society. Peter used to work at the National Physical Laboratory and was an excellent engineer, far better than me. Whilst I cannot compete with the standards he set I am going to do my best and am happy to accept the challenge.
The engine has been 10 years in construction so far. Peter had made all of the bits for the chassis and whilst he had loosely assembled them he had not fitted them. The first job apart from getting up to speed on what was done or not done was to take the assembled parts off the chassis and then progressively fit them back on adjusting and aligning as necessary. Then it was another strip down to paint and blacken all of the parts before reassembly.
After carefully measuring the location of the ports and the dimensions on the bobbins the valves were adjusted and it now runs well on air. Equally well in each direction.
I knew nothing about Hawksworth's 1500 and not much more about GWR engines having been brought up on the Bullied Pacifics on the Southern Region. I don't know a lot more now and I am hoping you guys will give me some guidance and steer me in the right direction when I o off piste.
I want to build the model as 1500 or 1501 as they were originally built with the rear steps facing backwards. I understand the neither 1500 nor 1501 were ever lined which to my mind adds to the simplicity of the appearance.

I have been following Gary's excellent thread on Paddington and this has given me a real boost in confidence, seeing the feedback and knowledge passed on in this forum.

I only have David Adam's drawings to go by and very few photographs and I learnt yesterday that his back-head drawing is all wrong, as is his boiler. My boiler is made to the Adam's design.
I have tried to add some photographs of the engine but I cannot find a way to reduce the file size in One Drive. As soon as I have mastered that I will post some so you can see what stage I am at.
Martyn

That's excellent news Martyn! Yours will be the first build thread on a Paddington on this forum, so expect plenty of interest. Mine doesn't really count; it is a bit like coming to Line of Duty for the final 2 episodes!

Wilf is right, I use Flickr too. You upload the photo at full resolution, then pick what resolution you want in your thread when you generate the BB code. If you pick a very low res, your photos will be quite small on screen; if you pick a very high res, it won't make any difference to the quality of the image on screen (compared to a medium res) but it will be slow to load. Use the Preview finction and you will soon find what works best for you. Flickr seems to limit the total number of photos you can store for free, but it doesn't seem to care how big they are. Activate all the privacy settings (IYSWIM) especially for hiding EXIF data.

Looking forward to your photos!

Gary

[dscott]

Welcome on Board Martyn.
Yes a lovely Locomotive and Yes we are doing a pair in 5" Gauge but to closer scale like Rogers.

We have been spotted at Guildford many times in the past and 2016 saw us there 6 times during the year.
We are good friends with Bruce Hope as I spent 3 Years out in Zambia during the mid 60's.
Broken Hill back then and passed the running sheds twice a day on my way to School.

Once you have perfected the photo thing they are addictive.

So looking forward to your progress.
We are in Reading.

David and Lily.

Lily was on the winning train at Little LEC.

[Roger]

Hi Martyn,
If you check your messages, you'll see something from me...

[martyn1936]

Hello David & Lilly, I remember meeting you at Guildford, I think it was when we hosted a SMEE running day a few years ago.
I am now using Flickr so hope to be able to post some photos showing where I am at. Essentially I am about to line up the boiler and make and fit the sliders then make the ashpan out of stainless which I intend to spot weld together. I want to try a Rosebud grate as several members have had success with them and that will mean using a different method of locating the grate than that proposed by Adams.

[Gary L]

May 30, 2021 21:30:49 GMT martyn1936 said:

Hello David & Lilly, I remember meeting you at Guildford, I think it was when we hosted a SMEE running day a few years ago.
I am now using Flickr so hope to be able to post some photos showing where I am at. Essentially I am about to line up the boiler and make and fit the sliders then make the ashpan out of stainless which I intend to spot weld together. I want to try a Rosebud grate as several members have had success with them and that will mean using a different method of locating the grate than that proposed by Adams.

Hi Martyn

Will a Rosebud work with a sloping grate? I seem to recall Roger made a Rosebud for his Speedy, but I don’t remember the details.

Unlike Speedy, the Paddington grate is designed to hook up and drop out in one piece via the forward damper door, so be careful with radical changes as you have to be able to get the ash and clinker out.

Do check your ashpan plan with a cardboard mock-up before you cut metaI. I might have mentioned before that the Adams drawing doesn’t fit the space available

HTH

Gary

[ejparrott]

I've not yet seen a Rosebud work successfully on a sloping grate of more than about 2 degrees. With a Rosebud the fire should 'float', if the grate slopes too steeply it will all float to the bottom and leave holes and cold spots.

[martyn1936]

I'm having no luck inserting images here with either Flickr or Imgur. I shall keep trying but will probably have to wait until one of the youngsters comes home.

[rrmrd66]

Hi martyn1936

Just to confuse you even more. Are you able to get the BB code? If not try this:

Go to "You" and then "Photostream"

Find the photo you want to upload.

In the bottom right hand corner there should be 4 icons. (Currently I can only get 3 of them, possibly something to do with me running Ad-blocker)

The 4 icons are, from the left:

1. Edit photo (pencil in box)

2. Share photo (up or right pointing arrow)

3. Download this photo (arrow pointing down)

4. Shopping cart

On my Mac there is a gap between "edit photo" and "download this photo", but hover in the gap between 1 and 3 with the finger/cursor and the "share photo" title box should appear.

Click on this invisible icon when the finger appears,

You should get a screen giving the BB code option. Right click and "Copy" this code

Have your Proboards page up and ready with "quick reply" in green banner top left.

Press "paste" into this page and a string of gobbledygook will appear

Press "Reply" in top right green banner (do not go near Post quick reply yet)

Your picture will appear by magic. Add text below picture if you want and repeat.

I think Roger taught me to add all my photos at once and the text later.

When finished and happy press "post quick reply" and we can all see your post.

Hope this helps and does not confuse

Cheers

Malcolm

[martyn1936]

Thank you Malcolm I will give it a try. What happens at the moment is that I can get a photo attached but it fills up all of the available space on the screen and does not leave anywhere to continue the text. Basically I cannot insert an image into the text. Until I master it I might just add a photo and then follow it up with some text on another post.
Turning to Gary's comment about the ashpan I have made a mock up in card and although it fits the space, the front damper will foul the stretcher before it is open very far. The rear damper is fine. I might do away with the front damper and simply put some holes in the place of the damper. It also looks difficult to gain access to the pin that holds the bottom of the ashpan in place. I am also considering making the grate in two parts to make it easier to remove.
Another problem is the blow down pipe and valve. As drawn it is impossible to assemble and the pipe passes through the frame stretcher where there is a hole. I intend to cut a slice out of the stretcher from the hole downwards this will allow the boiler with the blowdown in place to be fitted in the chassis.
Another question. Adam's drawing shows a hexagon as the blow down valve with no explanation as to what that is. I am contemplating fitting a good quality plumbing fitting to do this job although access is difficult it might be possible to get a screwdriver through the wheel spokes to turn the valve. Any suggestions please?

[martyn1936]

Sorry Malcom what is the BB code? It is one of the options on Imgur but I haven't the faintest idea what it is or what it means. Give me a lathe and a mill and I'm fine but all of this IT stuff leaves me cold.

[uuu]

In Flickr, there are size choices on the page that shows the BBcode option. Choosing a medium resolution before copying the code ought to make things more manageable.

Wilf

Edit - I think "BB" may stand for bulletin board, referring this arrangement of posts and threads.

[rrmrd66]

Hi Martyn

Wilf is probably right but you don't need to know what it means. Do as Wilf says and copy the BB code and paste it into the Proboards page of your post.

After having clicked on the "share photo" icon (or where in my Mac it should have been) you will get a screen that says "Share 1 photo to..". It gives 4 choices: Share, embed, E mail and BBCode. the last one is what you are after.

Click BBcode and you get a choice of image sizes as Wilf says. I normally go for large. Press copy via right finger click.

Swithch back to your Proboards page and press "paste"

After the long BB code string now appears on your Proboards page. Now press the space bar two or three times. This moves the flashing cursor down a couple of lines and leaves you space to get your text in (then or later).

Don't worry once you get it you will wonder what all the fuss was about.

Good Luck

Malcolm

[martyn1936]

Thanks guys

[Gary L]

Jun 8, 2021 17:25:23 GMT martyn1936 said:

[Snip BBcode- just follow Wilf and Malcolm]
Turning to Gary's comment about the ashpan I have made a mock up in card and although it fits the space, the front damper will foul the stretcher before it is open very far. The rear damper is fine. I might do away with the front damper and simply put some holes in the place of the damper. It also looks difficult to gain access to the pin that holds the bottom of the ashpan in place. I am also considering making the grate in two parts to make it easier to remove.
Another problem is the blow down pipe and valve. As drawn it is impossible to assemble and the pipe passes through the frame stretcher where there is a hole. I intend to cut a slice out of the stretcher from the hole downwards this will allow the boiler with the blowdown in place to be fitted in the chassis.
Another question. Adam's drawing shows a hexagon as the blow down valve with no explanation as to what that is. I am contemplating fitting a good quality plumbing fitting to do this job although access is difficult it might be possible to get a screwdriver through the wheel spokes to turn the valve. Any suggestions please?

The ashpan is reasonably OK in side elevation, though it can be made closer to the prototype profile without any great inconvenience. It is the end elevation that doesn't fit between the rear axle horns.

The front damper needs to open far enough for the grate to drop out, and you should have enough room to do so, if the stretcher (and/or the boiler) is in the right place. The grate will drop out in one piece as designed, by hooking via the firehole; you might find dividing it into two just complicates matters. The prototype grate has a short horizontal section at the rear; mine is the Reeves casting which has no such provision, and might complicate removal if it did. Without it (the horizontal portion), I'm not sure if it will be possible to fire in the proper Western manner, but we will see...

Speaking of stretchers, check the axle pumps if fitted, and decide if you really want them. Once installed, it is impossible to remove them (or even get the rams out) without dismantling the wheels and motion, which is very poor design. Two injectors and a hand pump (not drawn) should be ample for water feeds anyway.

The ashpan pin is indeed a bit tricky, if you have (or are planning for) the prototypical linkages for brakes, sanders, dampers... but it can be done! Suggest you fit the linkages first; they are a bit tricky in themselves, needing some supports and extra frame holes (not shown on the plans, but readily visible in photos.) The problem is (for others coming later) getting a clear line to extract the ashpan pin through the surrounding ironmongery.

The blowdown does fit, it passes through the hole in the stretcher, though it is tight. This is the reason it is in 2 parts, you have to screw in the top part before you can bolt the lower part onto its flange. It's not terribly difficult, not enough to justify cutting a slot in the stretcher* (IMHO). The Hexagon is a mystery- the detail for the blowdown is on sheet 19. NB before you finalise the angle of the bottom section, check that you have a clear line for the box spanner (or whatever) that you will use to operate the blowdown valve.

*But you will need to have a strategy for getting the boiler in and out. It is too heavy to manhandle, and doing it with the smokebox attached isn't necessarily any easier than doing it without. In my case I was able to arrange to remove it leaving the smokebox still fastened to the saddle, though it involves some surgery (hidden) to the top front of the boiler barrel, forward of the tube plate. And speaking of the boiler, Adams doesn't show the (rather important!) boiler rear brackets, or rather the expansion clips that hold the firebox down- more holes to drill before the boiler can be mounted properly!

HTH

Gary

[martyn1936]

 Hi guys, I am making slow progress on the photo front and as you can see I am now able to add a photo but I haven't fathomed out how to add a second or third one, so for the time being it will be one at a time. However I don't want this thread to be a commentary on my incompetence on the computer.
Gary here is the underside of my loco and I can remove the pumps and eccentrics without removing any wheelsets. Is your loco different?
Having got going I will restart the photos at the stage I have reached.
Martyn

[martyn1936]

Here goes with the next instalment. As you can see the boiler had 4  off 3/16" copper rivets protruding each side  and these were threaded 2 BA to hold the slipper. Having threaded both sides the next step was to line up the boiler to the correct height in the frames and to do that I made a wooden plug to go in the firehole and a pair of folding wedges to jack he boiler up.
The height was a compromise as I needed to get the boiler high enough to look right against the cab and be approximately where Adams had shown it ,but also to get the top of the Belpaire parallel with the top of the frames. I assume that is right?
The bottom of the firebox also needed to be clear of the horns. I will add some photos showing where I currently have the boiler located for some comments
Martyn

[martyn1936]

Here is the view with the wedges in place. Not very exciting but it is an easy way to adjust the height.

[Gary L]

Jun 9, 2021 13:55:15 GMT martyn1936 said:

 Hi guys, I am making slow progress on the photo front and as you can see I am now able to add a photo but I haven't fathomed out how to add a second or third one, so for the time being it will be one at a time. However I don't want this thread to be a commentary on my incompetence on the computer.
Gary here is the underside of my loco and I can remove the pumps and eccentrics without removing any wheelsets. Is your loco different?
Having got going I will restart the photos at the stage I have reached.
Martyn

Hi Martyn

That isn’t slow progress, that is ‘definitely cracked it!’ Once you can add one photo, you are able to add as many as you want. Have you found the Preview and BBCode buttons at the bottom L of the compose window? If you switch between the two, before you hit Create Post, you will see the relationship between the line of code from Flickr and the appearance on screen of the photo. It isn’t terribly intuitive, but it’s all you need.

Your pumps and eccentrics are excellent, very superior, and nothing like the Adams drawings! Clearly your original builder knew exactly what he was doing, so you have a very good base to continue from. It is yet another example where the Adams drawings must be triple-checked before cutting metal. So yes, my loco is different, because I have removed them totally. (It is no loss, because I hate axle pumps anyway.)

Gary