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Post by ejparrott on Aug 14, 2021 20:08:21 GMT
Talking of reference books - I find Tubal Cain's Model Engineer's Handbook a useful guide for many things. Wilf Lives by my desk, yet to find anything better for Model Engineers.
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Post by Jim on Aug 14, 2021 22:47:12 GMT
Talking of reference books - I find Tubal Cain's Model Engineer's Handbook a useful guide for many things. Wilf Lives by my desk, yet to find anything better for Model Engineers. Couldn't agree more, it has a wealth of information that is totally relevant to our hobby. Mine automtically falls open at the drill and taping guide charts.
Like tooling I've bought specific reference books as the need has arisen such as 'Model locomotive boiler making' by Alec Farmer and "Gears and gear cutting" by Ivan Law.
Jim
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Post by coniston on Aug 15, 2021 23:20:41 GMT
I hear many people advocating Tracey's Tools, but I have not had good experience with them. Some years ago, I ordered an 8mm drill (slack fit on 5/16" pin). When it arrived, it wouldn't cut, and when examined under a magnifying glass, the clearance on the cutting edges was negative. The flanks were rubbing, and preventing the cutting edge from cutting. I have never dealt with them again. I'm sorry to hear of your poor experience Steve, I've been using Tracy tools for many years and so far (touching all the wood I can with fingers crossed) not had any problems. In fact I ordered a set of ME taps (IIRC 3/8 x 40) in carbon steel and was supplied one in HSS with a note to say they didn't have stock of that one in CS. I think not buying from them ever again for one poor experience isn't really being very fair to them. Only saying this as a satisfied customer. Chris
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Post by chris vine on Aug 16, 2021 8:36:26 GMT
I ordered quite a large selection of reamers from Tracey Tools many years ago. Reamers are expensive for a young mans pockets so I went for these guys. They were mostly blunt and useless, but they had been dolled up to look good and dipped in the protective wax so they looked like precious objects!!
Great if other people find them good, but I now buy most cutting tools (except ME sizes) from MSC Industrial Supply.
Chris.
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rrmrd66
Part of the e-furniture
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Post by rrmrd66 on Aug 16, 2021 9:10:24 GMT
Morning Harry Robinson and everybody else.
That's more like it. Useful stuff. More use, IMHO, than things like buying small cars and crypto currency (I'll be getting my coat then!).
The most often used thing in my workshop is an A2 size laminated wall chart from Presto Drills that gives metric,imperial (decimals and fractions) in 0.1 mm increments up to 1 inch diameter. It has all letter and number drill sizes included.
I would suggest essential if you are a first time builder of say a Don Young design.
I am always amazed how often I refer to it.
Best of luck Harry.
Cheers
Malcolm
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abby
Statesman
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Post by abby on Aug 16, 2021 14:50:57 GMT
Some measuring tools will be needed quite early on , you can get a new digital caliper for next to nowt but a micrometer is a far better choice when measuring diameters. An accurate engineers square will also be very useful . A bench vice and some files not to mention a workbench solid enough to take the vice. Most of this stuff you can get second hand but check the files are still useable , I have some that are 50 years old at least and they still cut. Dan.
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rrmrd66
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Post by rrmrd66 on Aug 17, 2021 6:20:08 GMT
Good point abby reference files
Buy Swiss made Vallorbe, not cheap ones. I get mine from Axminster Tool. They last for years.
Cheers
Malcolm
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JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,912
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Tooling
Aug 17, 2021 10:27:16 GMT
via mobile
Post by JonL on Aug 17, 2021 10:27:16 GMT
I didn't have the budget for vallorbe so I went for Bahco which have served me well as a slightly cheaper alternative. This is especially important when a lot of engineers say you should have two sets of files, one for brass and one for everything else!
I've yet to go down that route.
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Post by John Baguley on Aug 17, 2021 13:56:48 GMT
I've picked up a LOT of tools from Ebay over the years. You can get some real bargains if you keep an eye out. I've picked up s/h Mititoyo digital calipers and digital mics, Albrecht keyless chucks, loads of brand new good quality files, taps and dies and hacksaw blades etc for very little money. I tend to use carbide endmills all the time now and most of those have come from Ebay as well, usually job lots, some of which are regrinds so like new, just a bit undersize.
I've got more drills than I can count but if starting again I would just go for good quality metric sets in 0.1mm increments as has already been suggested. They make having imperial and number drills pretty much unnecessary.
New lathe tools tend to be very expensive (some of the sets sold are a ridiculous price for what they are) but again you can often pick up bargains, especially if you have a decent bench grinder to sharpen them. I mostly use carbide insert tooling now and a lot of that has come from Banggood. Most of it has been very good for the price and perfectly adequate for hobby use. Some of the tips can be iffy but the holders are fine. I've now discovered the polished carbide tips for aluminium and have swapped over to those as they give an excellent finish on non ferrous metals as well as mild steel.
Don't be tempted to buy the cheap sets of adjustable reamers that a lot of the ME suppliers sell - they are absolute crap! Buy reamers as you need them and get good quality ones. Saying that, i've got hundreds that I've bought from Ebay as job lots. You do take pot luck with them but most of what I've collected still cut well.
John
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Post by andyhigham on Aug 17, 2021 14:12:47 GMT
If you go to steam fairs and autojumbles there is usually a stall or two selling secondhand tools, often a bargain can be picked up
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Post by chris vine on Aug 17, 2021 15:36:46 GMT
Andy is dead right about stalls with secondhand tools.
However, make sure you know the price of brand new quality tools from people like MSC Industrial. (no connection etc) The new tools are often cheaper than the second hand items of dubious quality!!
chris.
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Post by jon38r80 on Aug 18, 2021 18:57:08 GMT
Despite the anti China sentiments in the press and sometimes on here ( its made in China so it must be no good) a lot of reasonable quality tools and things like carbide inserts can be bought directly from China via websites like Bangood and Aliexpress. You just dont have to be in a hurry. A number ocompanies that sell through them have also set up direct selling in the UK via agents through Ebay which costs a little more usualy but the wait is not so long
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abby
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Post by abby on Aug 24, 2021 13:29:01 GMT
Some chinese made stuff is useable but I have found that the carbide inserts I have bought chip easily , and I bought an ER16 chuck with a full set of collets , the intention being to make a new spindle for my BCA . I found that the run-out of different collets,even though the accuracy was guaranteed,was too much to be of any use. OK the items were cheap enough to throw in the bin and look for a better quality alternative but where from ? Dan.
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uuu
Elder Statesman
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Post by uuu on Aug 24, 2021 14:11:10 GMT
These chaps sell decent collets. They're very expensive, eye-wateringly so for the 2-micron ones. D&J WorkholdingWilf
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abby
Statesman
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Post by abby on Aug 25, 2021 12:50:42 GMT
Thanks for the link Wilf , I have ordered two of the 5 micron accuracy collets at a cost of more than I paid for a complete set of the Chinese made ones plus the chuck. Oddly enough the chuck appears to be within spec as are a couple of the collets , anyway I will let you know the result of this purchase. Incidentally these collets are of German manufacture. My dad worked at Clarkson Cutters in Nuneaton for about 30 years, He would say that they "had visitors from Japan today, they are not allowed to take photographs but each of the group was making drawings of a part of the particular machine they were looking at, soon we will be out of business and the endmills will be Japanese." He did manage to get early retirement but Clarksons didn't last much longer. Dan.
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uuu
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Post by uuu on Aug 25, 2021 16:02:05 GMT
Incidentally, if you run a lot of PCB cutters, they do a 1/8" collet (as may other suppliers, I suppose). I found closing down a metric one, even though they're supposed to have a 1mm range, was not to my liking.
Wilf
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Post by Jo on Aug 26, 2021 15:56:07 GMT
Getting back to Harry's original request: I noted you are a member of a club. Sadly model engineers frequently pass on to the grand workshop in the sky leaving the clubs to dispose of their earthly workshop remains. These can normally be acquired at very reasonable prices. They are even cheaper if you let it be known you would like to buy an entire workshop and are willing to collect/clear it yourself.
Jo
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abby
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Post by abby on Sept 3, 2021 17:11:37 GMT
Just a brief update on my collet purchase , with the ER chuck mounted on my Boxford in a 4 jaw self centering chuck the runout is around 0.75 thou. Clocking of a 6.0 mm endmill shank held in the German made collet the runout is around 1.25 thou suggesting an accuracy of 0.5 thou. With the Chinese made collet the runout is 3.5 thou giving a result of over 2.5 thou runout. I now have to go through the whole set of Chinese collets to see if they are consistently inaccurate or perhaps some are OK. Dan.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Sept 3, 2021 17:44:53 GMT
Dan,
Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but if you mount your collet holder in a self-centering 4-jaw chuck, you are never going to be sure that the body is running true (unless you have an exceptional chuck).
I would think that if you want to hold the collet body in a chuck, it should be an independent 4-jaw, and adjust the chuck jaws until the collet body runs true.
But that then begs the question "Why use a collet chuck at all?". With an independent 4-jaw you should be able to adjust the work in the chuck jaws to run as accurately as you desire.
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Gary L
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Post by Gary L on Sept 3, 2021 21:20:02 GMT
Dan, Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but if you mount your collet holder in a self-centering 4-jaw chuck, you are never going to be sure that the body is running true (unless you have an exceptional chuck). I would think that if you want to hold the collet body in a chuck, it should be an independent 4-jaw, and adjust the chuck jaws until the collet body runs true. But that then begs the question "Why use a collet chuck at all?". With an independent 4-jaw you should be able to adjust the work in the chuck jaws to run as accurately as you desire. Yes indeed, that’s how I read it too. To make sense, the collet chuck should be a direct fit on or into the lathe headstock or the mill spindle. Nothing else makes any sense to me. But oh deary me, a 4-jaw is no substitute for a set of collets, life is too short for that. I know there are highly skilled craftsmen who can set up a 4-jaw quite quickly, but that person is not me! The joy of being able to switch work around from one collet to another in seconds, and know it will be accurate, is beyond price. I hardly ever need to use my 4-jaw independent now; it gets less use than the 4-jaw self-centring chuck (which is a little-known and under-rated piece of equipment IMHO) Gary
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