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Post by jcsteam on Oct 11, 2021 13:56:21 GMT
Hello all, I had a lovely weekend away with my partner and kids this weekend. We took a trip to South Wales, particularly Newport area. A fun filled weekend where we took in sights such as a roman amphitheatre and museum, also stayed in a railway wagon, an visited the big pit coal mining museum, also a ruined 11century castle. The highlight for me of all that weekend away was visiting the Newport model engineering society at the Glebelands track, the friendliest group of people I've had the pleasure to meet. The original reason for the trip to Wales was to purchase a Doris loco, but my partner Vikki had said that it should be a little break away for the kids too. Which they have throughly enjoyed. Now the loco, it is a part completed black 5 Doris, I haven't been able to do much on it, due to me only getting home at 9:30 last night, ans its still packed in the car at the moment. But it's always good to share projects big and small, and this one hopefully will be a case of paint and fittings to get her running. She is largely complete, the tender only needing minor work to get finished and painted. The chassis has been run on air, and even steam I'm told, with a flash steam boiler rigged up on top of the frames. Not knowing enough about flash steam boilers this has been removed, and was left. (It wasn't going to fit in the boot anyway). The boiler is built, but questionable, I was told it had held 1.1/2 times pressure, but because of rules in the boiler code was been sold as seen with no test. Fair enough. There's a smokebox, grate, superheater tube, pipework and some of the fittings needed. So it'll be a case of strip it back for cleaning and paint, then assemble checking as I go. Hopefully will make a nice loco when finished to get me running on the track. Regards Jon  20211009_182116 by Jon Cameron, on Flickr |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2021 18:12:32 GMT
Black 5's are nice loco's, good luck with the build Jon...
Pete
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Post by jcsteam on Nov 1, 2021 15:27:32 GMT
Just a few bits of the fun that awaits me, started to have a look at Doris today. Quite a few things not right, lots of different sized bolts used. Buffer beam angle holes should be 5BA, they currently have M4 in there. Where rivets should be and filed flush, they have been drilled out, and a gaping hole instead. Picking up a large piece of granite in an hour, to put onto of my metal workbench. This will give me a very good surface plate to make sure the frames are squared up. The horns are a bit odd too, the tops of them have all been chopped off. So not quite sure why that is, at the rear I believe it's to clear the firebox and ashpan, but I don't understand why it's been done on the front and driving axle?
Tender doesn't look too bad, but the wheels are loose on the axles. So depending on how bad they are I may remake the tender axles.
Photos to follow when I get it stripped down a little more.
Jon
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Post by jcsteam on Nov 6, 2021 23:06:12 GMT
Don't think I can change the title, however I think this thread should be re-building a Doris. The more I look the more it's looking a monumental task, with lots of bits to remake and change. Guess I've got to start somewhere and that'll be dismantling it all. Some pics as promised of the loco chassis.  20211106_224312 by Jon Cameron, on Flickr  20211106_224322 by Jon Cameron, on Flickr  20211106_224352 by Jon Cameron, on Flickr  20211106_224408 by Jon Cameron, on Flickr  20211106_224541 by Jon Cameron, on Flickr  20211106_225002 by Jon Cameron, on Flickr  20211106_224741 by Jon Cameron, on Flickr  20211106_224707 by Jon Cameron, on Flickr  20211106_224614 by Jon Cameron, on Flickr  20211106_224801 by Jon Cameron, on Flickr  20211106_224823 by Jon Cameron, on Flickr |
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Post by jcsteam on Nov 7, 2021 3:31:29 GMT
OK so a night spent stripping everything down, has got me to nearly a bare chassis. I'll asses it closely tomorrow, but it looks as though coupling and connecting rods are no good to reuse. As when the wheels were turned, they would pull the centre wheel down in the hornslot on one side. After posting on a fb group someone had recognised the engine and remembered the builder bringing it into the club one night. It had been tried on air and didn't run. Having taken the cylinders off, they don't appear to have good compression so may have been blowing past. I also found a couple of bobbins for the valve in the box of bits, so I will assume that he had tried to correct something and get it running. So they'll be to open up and assess. There was an awful lot of bolts missing from the loco. So I am glad that it was stripped. As some of them I wouldn't have seen. As can be seen from the pictures the horns have been drilled out and new ones put in their place. The rivets have been left proud on the surface. The frames also appear to have a banana shape bending ends up, so I think the frames must be bright steel and they have moved when the stresses in the steel have been relived with the cutting of the horn slots. With the enlarged holes in the buffer angle, coupled with the horns, and measuring all down the frames and getting slightly different readings from 3.125" to as little as 3.090". I'm seriously contemplating starting the frames and buffers over. What do you guys think? I do have 3mm material to make it from plus some angle. Just need to get some rivets and a rivet tool.  20211107_030649 by Jon Cameron, on Flickr  20211107_030825 by Jon Cameron, on Flickr Jon |
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Post by springcrocus on Nov 7, 2021 8:02:00 GMT
Don't think I can change the title, however I think this thread should be re-building a Doris. Yes, you can. You just have to edit the first post in the thread and the title box is available at the top.
Regards, Steve
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Post by jcsteam on Nov 7, 2021 8:04:41 GMT
Don't think I can change the title, however I think this thread should be re-building a Doris. Yes, you can. You just have to edit the first post in the thread and the title box is available at the top. Regards, Steve
So you can, thanks. |
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stevep
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,070
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Post by stevep on Nov 7, 2021 10:07:36 GMT
SNIP Just need to get some rivets and a rivet tool. SNIP Jon It's called a ball pein hammer  |
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Post by ettingtonliam on Nov 7, 2021 19:52:59 GMT
I think I'd be tempted to start again with new frame plates.
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Post by jcsteam on Nov 7, 2021 21:45:13 GMT
I think I'd be tempted to start again with new frame plates. Thanks Richard, I think that is the general concensus with the people I've spoken to today. WI'll machine new horns for the new frames, buffers stretchers ect. and start laying out my frames. Using 3mm wide steel so horns will be machined to 3mm instead of 1/8". And the stretchers will be 2.888" wide, which is right I believe for substituting the frame thickness. To keep the outside measurement at 3.1/8" over frames. Will update you with progress as I go. Also while I'm making horns and buffers for Doris may as well make them for Molly too. Jon |
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Post by simplyloco on Nov 8, 2021 15:10:58 GMT
SNIP Just need to get some rivets and a rivet tool. SNIP Jon It's called a ball pein hammer Agreed. Miss the rivet head and make a dent in the work and you have a pein in your ball...  |
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Post by jcsteam on Nov 8, 2021 16:09:41 GMT
It's called a ball pein hammer Agreed. Miss the rivet head and make a dent in the work and you have a pein in your ball... Both I'm going to make up a rivet snap, to do the buffers and the horns, I have some 6mm silver steel, so will drill a small way with a 4mm drill, heat it up and place a 3/16" dia ball bearing into the hole and hit it with a ball peen hammer haha. I'll cool off with an oil bath. Got to make the horns yet, these will be made out of some flat bar stock which is just the right size for the job. Jon |
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Post by chris vine on Nov 8, 2021 22:42:39 GMT
Hi Jon,
An alternative view would be to use the frames you have and do a bit of juggling to make it all fit together.
There is a risk that once you start making things again to your, higher, standards, you will end up making a new locomotive. Or, if you stick with some of the old parts you may be dissatisfied with the end result.
If you finish it retaining as much of the original as possible, it will be a quicker job and you will then be in a position to do something from scratch next time...
Only an contrary view!!
Chris.
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Post by terrier060 on Nov 9, 2021 10:52:42 GMT
I am glad you and the family enjoyed Wales Jon. Next time come and visit us in Bridgend - you won't be disappointed! On a brighter note about Doris, she is a lovely little engine when she is well built. We had one many years ago at the Soton track at Cobden Meadows and I remember her being almost silent when running, and so smooth. Like most of LBSC designs she really looked good and in scale as well.
One other little tip - fit two smaller bore axle pumps rather than one big one. On small 3 1/2" gauge locos the large ram can cause the loco to oscillate back and forth when the bypass is fully closed.
Good luck with the rebuild.
Ed
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Post by jcsteam on Nov 11, 2021 11:29:24 GMT
One other little tip - fit two smaller bore axle pumps rather than one big one. On small 3 1/2" gauge locos the large ram can cause the loco to oscillate back and forth when the bypass is fully closed. Good luck with the rebuild. Ed Hello Ed, can you point me in the direction for a double ram pump please, I think I remember seeing a "double pump for close quarters" somewhere in model engineer, but I think it may have been Martin evans design not LBSC but I may be mistaken. Kind regards Jon |
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Post by terrier060 on Nov 11, 2021 22:29:49 GMT
I am afraid I don't have any details as I designed my own for my Princess, but I suspecct someone on this forum will know of a published design.
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Post by springcrocus on Nov 11, 2021 22:47:53 GMT
One other little tip - fit two smaller bore axle pumps rather than one big one. On small 3 1/2" gauge locos the large ram can cause the loco to oscillate back and forth when the bypass is fully closed. Good luck with the rebuild. Ed Hello Ed, can you point me in the direction for a double ram pump please, I think I remember seeing a "double pump for close quarters" somewhere in model engineer, but I think it may have been Martin evans design not LBSC but I may be mistaken. Kind regards Jon Hello Jon, It's possible that THIS THREAD may be able to steer you in the right direction, or maybe not. Kind regards, Steve |
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Post by John Baguley on Nov 12, 2021 1:00:45 GMT
Hi Jon,
I think Martin Evans described twin axle pumps for his 3½" Gauge Jubilee tank loco. Many of LBSC's 2½" gauge designs have them (my Green Arrow does). All you need to do really is fit two pumps to the single design and couple the inlets and outlets but reduce the diameter of the rams from 3/8" dia. to say 5/16" and put the eccentrics at 180° to each other.
John
PS just found the drawings for the Jubilee pumps. I can email you a copy if you like.
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Post by jcsteam on Nov 12, 2021 9:20:50 GMT
PS just found the drawings for the Jubilee pumps. I can email you a copy if you like.
That would be great thank you, you've saved me looking through a lot of magazines, I'm sure I have that series. But if you could email me the drawings. I'll see if it'll fit. Was going to look at Marquess series as I think he describes one on that loco too. PM on the way Regards Jon |
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Post by jcsteam on Nov 17, 2021 9:58:43 GMT
Ive not done much on Doris the last few weeks but quick question, when I was stripping the loco down I spun the wheels while the frames where upside down, the driver axle pulled/pushed into the horn slot at a certain point, I believe this is due to the rods not been the right length. However how do I check the quartering on the wheels, when the wheels don't have any centres drilled in the axles. The method on the lathe is ruled out. I have a large granite worktop, set square, DTI, scribe block, and verdict indicator, probably other useful items for this job, but how do I check the correct quartering to both sides on the surface table?
Regards
Jon
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