|
|
Post by simplyloco on Nov 2, 2021 9:42:54 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by ettingtonliam on Nov 2, 2021 11:01:51 GMT
No, 2 trains converging from double track to single track through the tunnel. With all our fail safe devices, that just shouldn't happen anymore.
|
|
lesstoneuk
Part of the e-furniture
Retired Omnibus navigation & velocity adjustment technician
Posts: 373
|
Post by lesstoneuk on Nov 3, 2021 4:17:01 GMT
No, 2 trains converging from double track to single track through the tunnel. With all our fail safe devices, that just shouldn't happen anymore. It shouldn't but it does. It is a foolish attitude to believe that anything is failsafe, man is fallable, machines are fallable, mother nature is fallable. The railways are as safe as they are now because of countless deaths, injuries and destruction. Rules and regulations are there because of stupidity, laziness and non compliance. Thankfully the means of deducing the events leading up to this accident are in place and hopefully steps will be put into place so this never happens again. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2021 4:38:58 GMT
IIRC, the news earlier said that one train failed to stop at a red, as for why we will have to wait.
|
|
|
|
Post by dhamblin on Nov 3, 2021 7:34:21 GMT
Low adhesion seems to be the suspected cause, not surprising given the time of year and number of trees around that junction.
Regards,
Dan
|
|
lesstoneuk
Part of the e-furniture
Retired Omnibus navigation & velocity adjustment technician
Posts: 373
|
Post by lesstoneuk on Nov 3, 2021 8:26:14 GMT
Low adhesion seems to be the suspected cause, not surprising given the time of year and number of trees around that junction. Regards, Dan That still doesn't excuse skidding past a danger signal. After all, if its foggy, you don't tank it down the motorway do you? |
|
|
|
Post by cplmickey on Nov 3, 2021 8:40:35 GMT
That still doesn't excuse skidding past a danger signal. After all, if its foggy, you don't tank it down the motorway do you? And presumably the previous section or two maybe would have had yellow signals so the driver would know there was a red coming so would have reduced his speed accordingly. |
|
|
|
Post by suctionhose on Nov 3, 2021 8:57:09 GMT
We just had a pile up south of Sydney: guy stole a vehicle and left in the middle of a level crossing!
Train driving is pretty repetitive. Then all of a sudden...
|
|
|
|
Post by simplyloco on Nov 3, 2021 9:58:20 GMT
On the BBC this morning,
The 75 year old driver said the wheels skidded on the damp track and the train went through the red light.
Wrong sort of water?
|
|
|
|
Post by Boadicea on Nov 3, 2021 10:02:29 GMT
No, 2 trains converging from double track to single track through the tunnel. With all our fail safe devices, that just shouldn't happen anymore. But we know there's no such thing as fail-safe don't we. |
|
jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
|
Post by jma1009 on Nov 3, 2021 11:20:11 GMT
|
|
jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
|
Post by jma1009 on Nov 3, 2021 11:42:37 GMT
(I gather from other sources that the railhead treatment train (RHTT) was cancelled for the 2 previous days, and of course the weather on Sunday was very bad - certainly in South Wales).
|
|
Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,871
|
Post by Midland on Nov 3, 2021 17:07:43 GMT
I am amused how easy it is that model engineers become authoritative rail accident investigators, especially the double track going to single through a tunnel. Julian’s reference to the RAIB report is a good objective starting point. If you would like to see an interesting accident report that I was part of, have a look at this, www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Summit1984.pdfThis happened in my previous life, the one thing I learnt from these investigations of derailments to our freight cars was when they came off, stay quiet until the facts were on the table. At Summit there a lot of theories until we got to the real cause and avoided a multimillion pound claim from BR! Cheers David |
|
lesstoneuk
Part of the e-furniture
Retired Omnibus navigation & velocity adjustment technician
Posts: 373
|
Post by lesstoneuk on Nov 3, 2021 19:03:15 GMT
I am amused how easy it is that model engineers become authoritative rail accident investigators, especially the double track going to single through a tunnel. Julian’s reference to the RAIB report is a good objective starting point. If you would like to see an interesting accident report that I was part of, have a look at this, www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Summit1984.pdfThis happened in my previous life, the one thing I learnt from these investigations of derailments to our freight cars was when they came off, stay quiet until the facts were on the table. At Summit there a lot of theories until we got to the real cause and avoided a multimillion pound claim from BR! Cheers David So, looks like I'm one of the few on here qualified to comment being as I was a train driver for BR. I drove 50s,47s,31s and DMUs. And yes, I also had a SPAD, totally my fault, I learnt from that. |
|
jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
|
Post by jma1009 on Nov 3, 2021 21:05:12 GMT
At one level it is a fascinating accident. The driver of the second train came down the Laverstock curve and applied the brakes 12 seconds before passing the multi aspect colour light signal (MAS) showing yellow indicating that the junction signal was at danger. A relatively straightforward double track junction with beyond a double track line but into a tunnel.
TPWS was activated, and the driver also made an emergency brake application prior to this. But the train didn't stop and went past the junction MAS at danger (a SPAD) and struck the other train passing through the junction.
|
|
dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,438
|
Post by dscott on Nov 4, 2021 6:33:17 GMT
Cutting the trees often makes things worse!
One morning our train skidded through the station at Ivybridge and of course sat beyond the platform for ages.
YES correct procedure and contacting the signalman to undertake a reverse.
I informed the Guard THAT NETWORK RAIL HAD CUT MANY TREES DOWN OVER THE WEEKEND AND HAD SHREDDED THEM UP UPWIND OF THE PLATFORM.
OOPS. The driver was as shocked as we were.
When first built the railway was clear of trees.
Currently working on a rail cleaner.
David and Lily.
|
|
JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,912
|
Post by JonL on Nov 4, 2021 9:33:12 GMT
I am amused how easy it is that model engineers become authoritative rail accident investigators, especially the double track going to single through a tunnel. Julian’s reference to the RAIB report is a good objective starting point. If you would like to see an interesting accident report that I was part of, have a look at this, www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Summit1984.pdfThis happened in my previous life, the one thing I learnt from these investigations of derailments to our freight cars was when they came off, stay quiet until the facts were on the table. At Summit there a lot of theories until we got to the real cause and avoided a multimillion pound claim from BR! Cheers David So, looks like I'm one of the few on here qualified to comment being as I was a train driver for BR. I drove 50s,47s,31s and DMUs. And yes, I also had a SPAD, totally my fault, I learnt from that. I don't think any of us can bring much to it, as we were not in the cab at the time and didn't see what the driver saw. |
|
Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
|
Post by Gary L on Nov 4, 2021 13:52:26 GMT
So, looks like I'm one of the few on here qualified to comment being as I was a train driver for BR. I drove 50s,47s,31s and DMUs. And yes, I also had a SPAD, totally my fault, I learnt from that. I don't think any of us can bring much to it, as we were not in the cab at the time and didn't see what the driver saw. Indeed. That is why we have a RAIB is it not? Gary |
|
|
|
Post by lankyyorky on Nov 4, 2021 23:43:37 GMT
On the face of it it seems to be yet another instance of disk brakes and deposits on the rails, if the wheels pick up in these circumstances there is little the driver can do, In years gone by cast iron brake blocks working on the wheel tread helped to clean some of the gunge off, perhaps they should re-introduce sanding gear:-).
Incidentally I notice units today on the Liverpool St suburban services don't run into stations at anything like the speeds they used to with the original Shenfield sliding door stock which had brake blocks.
L
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960 
|
Post by don9f on Nov 5, 2021 16:38:53 GMT
Before I retired, I worked on a fleet of high speed trains that were fitted with “one shot sanders” that could be discharged under certain wheels of the leading vehicle to try and improve adhesion during an emergency stop. The discharge lasted about 30 seconds and three conditions had to exist for them to “fire”, basically:-
Driver pressed the emergency brake plunger
Speed > 8mph
Wheelslide occurring at the time
Depending on the circumstances, more and more wheels would run onto sand and benefit from improved adhesion.
From the photos I’ve seen in the various reports, it was a Class 159 unit that was sliding and collided with the other train, but don’t know if they have sanders or not.
Don
|
|
