darrene
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Post by darrene on Dec 11, 2021 14:07:56 GMT
More slow progress, mainly on the drive train. I reasoned I'd need to cut the tender axles as the shafts would need turning down in order to fit the motor bracket bushes and spur gear. It still felt utterly wrong taking a hacksaw to them! Test-fitting one of the motors. The installation space between the axles is incredibly tight but just about do-able I think. I've had to trim down the end of the motor shaft to get it to fit. I've ordered a different sort of Mod1 pinion gear to accomodate this and it's winging it's way from China. As it stands, the Parkside Railways mounting bracket is too short to accomodate the gearing. I'll recheck the gearing I've picked but otherwise I will need to get some slightly longer brackets cut. There looks to be enough space in the chassis to accomodate this change. Another small piece of progress has been to make the brass covers for the inside valves. Necessity being the mother of invention, I've opted to turn down some 3/4" plumbing blanking caps slightly as they were pretty close in size! Darren
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Dec 12, 2021 15:42:26 GMT
I brought the chassis inside to work on and have turned my attention to the running boards, which took some finnessing to get them to sit properly. Mocking up the boiler to work out feed positions Darren
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Dec 21, 2021 11:16:09 GMT
I've not found the time to do very much more yet, but some progress has been made. Firstly, with thanks to philh1aa who got me to use my brain, I've adopted the formers-and-skin approach for the firebox. Plywood offcuts from the bathroom work made for good formers and the skin will be either basswood sheet or styrene sheet. A red oxide primer and Rover Damask Red was tried on the boiler tube to see how it came out and I'll compare it against the Phoenix Precision Crimson Lake which is what the tender will get. Steve at 4QD has kindly looked over the approach I'm taking for the mechanical/electrical control interfaces and doesn't forsee a problem with that, which is positive. My next hurdle is fixing the 90T spur gears to the wheels. I'm using Loctite 638 on the metal pinion gears to hold them on the shortened motor shafts. Fitting the nylon gears to the spoked wheel castings is slightly more of a challenge. A mechanical, removable fixing is required but the space in which to do it, is fairly small. Here is the gear on the shaft. The mounting choices are either the toothed 'rim' of the gear, or the area between the axle and that described by the pencil line. This is probably the best option, however I'm strugglng to see how to drill the hole without the trouble of removing the axle. After some lateral thinking, I may look to drill from the outside face of the wheel. The hole is hidden by the axlebox although I could always put a small amount of filler on the outside face too. My other option of mounting the gear to a backplate attached to the shaft has been knobbled by the fact all clearances on installation are already minimal Merry Christmas all! Darren
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Dec 29, 2021 17:03:46 GMT
A little more progress is being made on a number of fronts. The tender wheels are drilled and tapped 4BA for the Mod 1 nylon gears, The cab has been sprayed Crimson Lake on the sides and front, cream on the interior and once the coats have dried the roof will get a coat of satin black. The glazing has been cut for the side windows The front steam pipes have been lagged - a most rewarding job! The terrible trailing bogie axlebox oil caps just had to go. I had some grub screws of the correct thread, so have been experimenting with a couple of ideas. Option 1: Option 2: I'm waiting on some more rivets for the running boards which can then go back on, and a lump of BMS with which to make the missing right hand lifting link.
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Jan 24, 2022 20:22:09 GMT
Progress on a number of fronts just not all of them Princess-related
I had a go at some cheap and cheerful lining on the tender frames, using the Poca pen method with a 3d-printed offset guide and was quite pleased at how it came out - I've never tried lining before and this method made having a go quite easy. I dpo have a proper Bob Moore pen at my parents and will pick it up next time I see them but this made for an interesting experience and has bolstered my confidence a bit
I was lacking a motor mounting bracket for the third motor but managed to get hold of the original CAD files and Model Engineers Laser came to the rescue, cutting a set for me.
MEL again helped with the front bogie which was little more than axle blocks and end stretchers, it lacked the centre spreader/pin plate and the spring equaliser beams. I reasoned Duchess bogie parts would be a close match for it and MEL list the Breeze and Clarksons parts on their cutting list. After checking the PDFs it seemed mine had ben based around the Breeze design, so the relevant parts were ordered and are being used to complete the bogie. Suspension is to my own design as I didn't have any drawings to consult and the mechanics of it are hidden anyway.
A cab floor was made from lollypop sticks, stained with an ink/IPA solution.
Here the LHS running board has been fitted along with the cab in order to check the throw of the reverser linkage. A 3D-printed arm is clamped onto the reverser cross-bar as it passes through the frames and activates a micro switch when it's at maximum throw. The microswitch is used as the direction control switch by the 4QD controller.
a DIN-rail mounted MCB has been installed as a battery isolator in the tender and some Wago 221 terminals used for distribution from the controller to the three motors
Next jobs up are to: complete and mount the front bogie, Fit and test the reverse limit switch and regulator speed potentiometer Drill and bolt the axle sleeves joining the tender axle halves together Test-run the tender Sort out the firebox and backhead Livery the cab and tender Make up some scale convoluted hose to carry the control wiring between tender and loco And a myriad other things
Darren
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Jan 25, 2022 22:07:02 GMT
A quick test of the directional switch activated by the reverser
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Jan 25, 2022 23:16:59 GMT
I have been looking at running some lubrication lines to the main axle boxes. A pair of these black boxes were included with the loco originally; although they are only twin output, I can’t think what else they were intended for. Could I realistically run lines from them to the holes above the axle boxes, in order to get a gravity drip feed? It’d only take small diameter 1/8” tube, but it should still be effective shouldn't it? Darren
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Jan 29, 2022 19:03:01 GMT
A bit of progress on the front bogie - There were no suspension components so I've made my own solution and tried to be fairly faithful to the original design. Each of the top chassis rails have been bolted to the MEL-supplied bolster plate with four countersunk 2BA bolts, the middle 2 bolts on each run the height of the frame for a pair of springs. The MEL-supplied equaliser beams on each side sandwich some aluminium channel which have a pair of oversized holes in the bottom for the 2 long bolts to ride through. The base of the aluminium channel forms the bottom platform for the springs with the underneath of the bolster plate forming the top. Just the central mounting block to go now, which I am thinking of pressing an oilite bearing into. The third motor, bushes and brackets have arrived, so assembly of the tender drivetrain can finish. The motor brackets are designed to pivot on a part of the chassis but I noted that by a great stroke of luck they are in an almost perfect position to utilise the brake hangers - particularly satisfying as it means less alteration to the original design. I am fairly sure cable ties could not be regarded as an engineering solution by any stretch of the imagination, but for the prototype I have used them to keep the motor brackets attached to the spring hanger rods. Eventually I think I will look at redesigning the motor brackets to use a hole for the rod to pass through, in preference to the slots they currently have. You can just about see in this photo, the through-bolts pinning the axles to the sleeves which join them. The whole setup works quite well - by removing the keeps at the bottom of the hornblocks the motor brackets pivot up, allowing the axle to ride out, removing the through-bolt allows the wheel with the gear to be removed for maintenance or replacement. The whole process involves 3 bolts and takes less than a minute. Darren
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Feb 7, 2022 18:08:53 GMT
I managed a visit to the very helpful Alan Redgrave recently - ostentibly to pick up a 4QD controller from him but also the chance to meet up and chat. I took the Princess up with me as we were keen to compare some of the aspects to his fabulous Great Bear work.
It proved to be a useful visit - not only did I get to drool over Mike's fabulous castings which Alan's using (especially the gorgeous interior steam chest!) but Alan cast an experienced eye over the Princess and told me it looked to be converted from a King originally. Just before I departed he suggested putting some air through it, for a chuckle. I almost said no as I was convinced it'd be a waste of time; there were plenty of unsealed faces and the valvegear was not only unset but had a huge amount of slop in it.
Nevertheless we decided to give it a try and blow me if it didn't try to move when we tried each of the 4 cylinders! I have since sorted out the valvegear slop (a couple of grub screws had either backed out or not been nipped up on the eccentric cranks) and intend to get it running on air when I get it back into the shed!
The tender drivetrain has been given a quick test and seems to work well on the bench supply. The Wago distribution is nice and neat. More cables and an RC module has been ordered from 4QD - I thought it might be fun to have the option to run the loco by RC eventually and the interface they offer seems very good value..
The lubricating oil tanks for the main axleboxes have had a third outlet added and need plumbing in. I've painted up the frames and mounted the front bogie. It's all starting to come together.
A question for the collective MECH intelligence. What's the best approach here? The 3/8x26 steam inlets on the internal cylinders are vertical and need to be horizontal in order to fit under the platework in front of the smokebox door.
The solution (elbow? banjo fitting? manifold of some sort?) needs to be pretty low profile - I have about 15mm in height to work with. What do folks think would be the best approach here? The inlets can be clearly seen in the middle of the picture here, sporting their vertical unions..
Darren
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Post by fubar123 on Feb 7, 2022 18:30:55 GMT
Auntie Redgrave........ Well Dodgy Character !
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Feb 7, 2022 20:50:57 GMT
Just remembered I need to drop you a message Chris I'll do that this evening.
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Post by delaplume on Feb 21, 2022 10:56:28 GMT
Auntie Redgrave........ Well Dodgy Character ! I certainly wouldn't buy a used car from him !!..............a 5 inch loco YES !!.....but not a car..LoL !!... Hi Darren--- how's that drive set-up performing ??......I'm about to do the same with my Class 52 if the present arrangement proves U/S... Hi Chris.... Just keep repeating}--- "Tuesdays are Workdays"......and I hope to see you soon .... Cheers to one and all !! Alan
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Post by delaplume on Feb 21, 2022 11:24:40 GMT
Hi Darren---- just a thought on your improvised motor toque arm and proposed new bracket}---- Remember that the motor pinnion and gear wheel needs to be kept in constant mesh....As the axle rises and falls so will the drive train....thus you can't have a circular hole in the bracket attached to the bogie mainframe as this will tend to stop the assy. from moving with the axle.....An elongated hole will do though...
I'm in the process of revamping a rather elderly Class 40 where this has happened...Your cross bar in this case was made from all-thread which just jammed-up resulting in one pinnion/ gear wheel mesh assy. being almost destroyed...
Full-size terminology is}--- "Axle hung, nose suspended" where an extension of the motor case is sandwiched between rubber blocks within a frame attached to the bogie....
In our models the suspension has to be able to cope with track deflections that are way out of scale so allow at least 1/4 inch total axle travel or maybe more, depending on what you find when the tender is fully assembled......
To increase duration time why not add a second battery ( or more ) in a camouflaged container at the front of your driving truck ??.......I did this on an 0 - 4 - 0 shunter a few years ago and it meant I could "Play" the whole day with no need to fit new Batts. halfway through the afternoon....( mainly involved with rescuing Failed steamers !!! )...
For some reason I can't seem to load photos on here at the moment so if you e-mail me I can send photos of this loco and the extra battery etc...OK ??
Alan
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Feb 21, 2022 21:00:57 GMT
Hi Alan
I don't think my photos show the setup too well - axle hung, nose suspended is an accurate description of it - the motor is sandwiched between a pair of mounting plates through which hang off the axle passes - so it's always a constant mesh - the entire assembly pivots around the axle line.
In order to keep the assembly from spinning around the axle the nose of the brackets are held in position - in this case by the elongated hole at the front of them, which the brake hanger rod locates onto.
You make a goods point reL springing - it looks as though the extra weight isis putting the tender springs into maximum compression. I'm going to look at uprating them.
Darren
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Post by delaplume on Feb 21, 2022 21:09:51 GMT
Hello Darren---
Have you given any thought to the lubrication of the outer pistons ( main and valve ) ??........also, remember me suggesting that you could remove the loading of the entire inside valve motion ??....Just disconnect the inner pin on the horizontal rocker arm....
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Feb 21, 2022 21:10:28 GMT
It's about time for another update!
The loco is pretty much ready for her boiler shell, which is something I'm working on.
Die springs have worked really well in providing springing for the main drivers. I also had a quick go at running her up on air. The results were a bit lumpy but she can certainly run. Some valve timing is needed I think.
The tender chassis is wired and I've started on the spaghetti in the tender body
Here are the power plants. The voltage and current meter will either go in the rear coal board or underneath the rear hatch on the tender. This shot also shows the 'inhibitor' switch used to power up the controls.
Darren
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Feb 25, 2022 20:40:04 GMT
I hit a milestone today, albeit a nervewracking one. First test run of the powered tender! It ended up being rather anti-climactical, which I suppose was a good thing It's possible the gearing is too high. If that proves to be the case on the track, I'm going to look at dropping the voltage to extend runtime.
Now it's just a case of putting it all together.
The control cable will be passed to the loco via a nice vacuum hose to conceal it.
Darren
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Feb 27, 2022 13:28:15 GMT
A little play with possible sound options - a Visaton 5" full-range speaker beneath the petticoat pipe. I was unsure whether the ESU sound unit I wanted to use would be sufficient, but I think it might be okay. The speaker still requires an enclosure and a little more volume is available. Next up, a more fitting sound file. This was a twin cylinder cross-compound Pacific rather than a 4-cylinder, but has some nice randomised sounds, plus some brake squeal.
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Post by delaplume on Feb 28, 2022 2:47:06 GMT
Hi Darren---- surely if you drop the voltage then the current in the wiring will increase ??.......If you've already wired for a 24v system then you might get some overheating cables ??
Generally a ratio of 6:1 seems to work well..
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Feb 28, 2022 20:17:05 GMT
Agreed Alan. The trade-off would be higher current in the wiring. I'll do some checks if I take that option - it's all 6mm2 from the distribution blocks and doubled between the battery, controller and distribution blocks, but ideally I'd stick with 24v. I have a feeling that with the addition of the loco and some weight behind, it won't seem quite so fast. The current draw is certainly pretty low when it's only having to spin the rollers From memory my ratio is 7.5:1, so although on the tall side, it sounds as though I'm in the ballpark.
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