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Post by silverfox on Dec 14, 2021 15:42:12 GMT
Regarding colours. IIRC there was a bit of a 'conversation' in one of the mags that claimed that the smaller the gauges the more 'non authentic' were the colours even though the paint was the same as the full size loco. and it had to be darkened/lightened ( cannot remember which) to match the full size loco Is there any truth in this, or was it someone looking for an argument?
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Post by cplmickey on Dec 14, 2021 19:24:09 GMT
Yes I'm just getting some paint from them and at £16.20 a litre for the gloss and £9.78 a litre for the undercoat I should have added plus VAT and plus carriage so I don't mislead anyone.
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lesstoneuk
Part of the e-furniture
Retired Omnibus navigation & velocity adjustment technician
Posts: 373
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Post by lesstoneuk on Dec 14, 2021 19:37:24 GMT
Lesstoneuk, You have a pm. Waggy. I've replied. Many thanks Have a great Christmas and a happy new year.
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Dec 14, 2021 19:44:56 GMT
Regarding colours. IIRC there was a bit of a 'conversation' in one of the mags that claimed that the smaller the gauges the more 'non authentic' were the colours even though the paint was the same as the full size loco. and it had to be darkened/lightened ( cannot remember which) to match the full size loco Is there any truth in this, or was it someone looking for an argument? Bob (92220) has mentioned this sort of thing before, I recall him talking about having to change the gloss level of the paint, as the scale of the model changes. That possibly changes the way our eyes see the colour? Hopefully he’ll come back with more info. Cheers Don
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lesstoneuk
Part of the e-furniture
Retired Omnibus navigation & velocity adjustment technician
Posts: 373
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Post by lesstoneuk on Dec 15, 2021 3:27:25 GMT
When I modelled polystyrene aviation kits, it was well known that colours had to be lightened at least one shade. Best example I can think of is a rubber tyre. Even though they are pure matt black in real life, they look decidedly odd if scale ones are painted matt black. A very dark grey was way way better.
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Post by chris vine on Dec 15, 2021 8:16:02 GMT
This has been discussed many times before. Personally, I don't agree with reducing the level of gloss. Especially since the "science" quoted is, to my mind, suspect!!
Then you come to how we perceive colours. This is another can of worms!! If you want to get philosophical about our hobby: Are we trying to create a replica of the original (in which case it should be the same colour) or are we trying to create an object which appears to our eyes (at some particular distance and against a particular background) to appear to be like the original?
I think that if you can know that you have painted it the same colour as the original, then that is a better and more tenable position than trying to defend the position of painting it a different colour because it might be perceived as being more lifelike.
If you are creating a diorama or a film set, then I agree completely: You would want the overall effect to be more important than the individual parts.
Chris.
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Post by 92220 on Dec 15, 2021 9:11:08 GMT
5" g and above can use the same colour as fullsize, and look right. The gloss level needs to be reduced to about 95% for 5". It must still look gloss, but not dazzlingly so, like the paint, when new, on a fullsize loco. As you come down in scale, the gloss level does need adjusting. 00 gauge models need to be quite a bit duller and slightly lighter, to 'look right'. It's all in the observation. Look at a polished, new Rolls Royce, from 5 feet away. The colour will look quite different when the same car is seen from a distance of 100 yards (Metres). The paint will also look highly gloss when seen close up. Look at it from a distance and the gloss level will appear significantly duller. As Chris says, the background colour also has a significant effect on the colours observed. That is what we are trying to do with our models. They are miniatures of fullsize in exactly the same way as the Rolls Royce, at 100 yards, appears as a miniature of the car when 5 feet away. Also, as Chris says, we all perceive colours differently. Reds and Greens are the worst colours for being perceived differently, as 1 in 5 men and 1 in 7 women, have this deficiency as a kind of colour blindness. Again, as Chris says, the observation, and perception, of colour IS definitely a 'can of worms 'simply because we all see colours differently to some degree!! What I see as one colour, someone else may see as a different colour, but they will still use the same name and description for what they see.
Bob
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waggy
Statesman
Posts: 744
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Post by waggy on Dec 15, 2021 17:40:20 GMT
Les,
Emails for you.
Waggy.
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JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,909
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Post by JonL on Dec 15, 2021 21:20:38 GMT
An accurate model is a wonderful thing, but I wonder where people draw the line? Have we all got the correct number of boiler tubes? Because it would make for an accurate model but a very stationary one...
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Post by silverfox on Dec 15, 2021 23:22:51 GMT
Como has
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Post by ettingtonliam on Dec 15, 2021 23:51:38 GMT
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,720
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Post by mbrown on Dec 16, 2021 3:56:33 GMT
I was about to mention Como too.... Dr Bradbury Winter's Brighton 0-4-2, a glass case model in (I think) Brighton museum, regarded by many as the finest and most accurate representation of an LBSCR (or possibly any) locomotive.
Yes, it has the correct number and size of boiler tubes. No, it is defintely not a steamable model. I have no idea if the chassis was ever run on air although I expect it would have worked.
But horses for courses. Most of us don't build our locos to adorn glass cases. Some of us get a kick from trying to see how close to a Como we can get whilst still having a loco that steams and pulls. We fail, but by different degrees!
Malcolm
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Post by 92220 on Dec 16, 2021 8:57:57 GMT
Como was built faithfully to works drawings where physically possible in the scale. Definitely not as a working model.
Bob.
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Post by chris vine on Dec 16, 2021 13:36:50 GMT
I am pretty sure that Como would have used the original paint that was used on the full size, contemporary engine. IE, it would have been the correct colour and finish/texture.
To my mind, we are creating miniatures of an original. They don't operate in diaramas, so I think they should just be as correct as we can, or want, to make them.
So, again to me, that is gloss should be gloss and the colour should be accurate. Changing these because they might appear to be correct (in a particular circumstance, location, point of view etc), is so open to opinion that it rather invalidates it.
If you are making something to appear in a film, that is a totally different need. The colour and texture must "look" right.
Equally, the greatest thing about this hobby is that it is our own project and we can do what we like! If you work with a full size group there will be many (entrenched) opinions. How polite and tactful is that?!!
Chris.
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Post by 92220 on Dec 16, 2021 15:25:44 GMT
Hi Chris.
Yes you are right. Como WAS painted in actual Stroudley "Improved Engine Green". There has been a lot of speculation about why the colour is called "Improved Engine Green". Could it be that the name is slightly abbreviated from the original? Could the original name have been "Improvement on Engine Green", because prior to Stroudley, the loco colour was Green. Maube the other reson for tyhe odd name is that he was colour blind, though I think that a bit unlikely as, if that had been the case, the directors would have put him right. !Because it was made using yellow oxide pigment it was very stable. It is one of the few railway colours that didn't/doesn't change shade with age. Como looks exactly the same colour as it did when first completed by Dr Bradbury Winter. The only proviso to that statement is that the Yellow Oxide pigment was a natural pigment, and there would have been slight variations batch to batch. However, I think Stroudley picked that colour because it was such a stable pigment, and didn't change shade with age, unlike almost every other railway colour that was produced before WW2, when colour-stable,synthetic pigments were invented.
Bob.
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Post by chris vine on Dec 16, 2021 20:36:56 GMT
Hi Bob,
Yes, that is all interesting. Now that we live in Kent (no longer in Scotland), I must make a trip to Brighton to view Como!!...
Chris.
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