Australian School Science Experiment Gone Wrong.

[SteveW]

Just reading about a school science experiment that went very wrong. There's something called "The Sugar Snake" which uses a mix of sugar and bicarb heated with a fuel flame to create a reaction so I looked it up.

I found two demonstrations, the first came with all the safety issues explained and I would suggest it as a good example of teaching and exposing students to a little structure danger ready for the big world ahead of them:

A good safe demo of the Sugar Snake experiment

This second video is a little more impressive at the end but you really have to be patient. Would add that the demonstrator is a little more cavalier on safety but would be a very useful talking point for students.

Beyond the Sugar Snake

The reported Australian school experiment put students in hospital so a cautionary tail to learn from.

Students need to be exposed to failure so they know what it looks like and can answer the question : "What could possibly go wrong?".

Same applies to our little hobby.

[oldnorton]

Yes both interesting to watch, thank you. The second chap was probably a chemist I would suggest as he was precise in identifying all his materials. Personally, I would have put some glasses on to dispense the concentrated sulphuric acid (!) and perhaps run the experiments in a fume cupboard.

The first one though has left me more worried and I guess from the accent it is from Australia? What is in the 'Colemans Premium Blended Fuel'? It seems to light as would a paraffin or BBQ fluid. But in the UK I thought that 'Colemans Fuel' was a pure gasoline (like petrol) for pressurised camping stoves. I would not want to tip 150ml of petrol on sand and put a light to it, or does anyone think that is ok? Have we different products similarly branded in different global markets, and a potential safety problem, or should I do some petrol lighting experiments?

[SteveW]

OldNorton,
I can confirm that petrol is best avoided for this sort of thing. Stirring around they talk of lighter fuel and the stuff used above looks more like paraffin.

Years back I needed to boot up a failed garden waste fire, all very dry but it wouldn't burn. All I had was a bit of petrol and it was a cold day so thought to try it. I tipped about a mug full of petrol on the embryo fire but being cautious used a long pole with a burning rag on the end. It took me a while to sort out my igniter and a couple of pokes before the petrol caught.

The resulting fire started with a massive whooosh, a fut short of a bang and the echo returned a second or so later.

Message ... be very careful with petrol, it takes no prisoners.

[uuu]

I found this: "Coleman fuel is a liquid fuel popular among campers and backpackers, and it is less toxic than unleaded fuel. Coleman Fuel is cyclohexane, nonane, octane, heptane, and pentane-based product, which is derived from crude oil."

Also found data sheet listing flash point <-18degC. And has the following precautions:
EYE/FACE PROTECTION
Safety glasses, splash goggles, or face shield as appropriate. Have suitable eye wash water available.
SKIN PROTECTION
Avoid prolonged and/or repeated skin contact. If prolonged contact cannot be avoided, wear protective impervious gloves
and clothing. Acceptable materials for gloves are neoprene, nitrile, or viton.
RESPIRATORY PROTECTION
Up to 1000 ppm, half -mask organic vapor respirator. Up to 5000 ppm, full-face organic vapor respirator or full-face supplied
air respirator. Greater than 5000 ppm, fire fighting, or unknown concentration, self-contained breathing apparatus with
positive pressure should be used.
OTHER/GENERAL PROTECTION
If there is a likelihood of splashing, oil-resistant clothing should be worn. Never wear oil-soaked clothing. Launder or dry
clean before wearing. Discard fuel-soaked shoes. Affix warning labels on containers in accordance with 29 CFR 1910.1200
(Hazard Communication Standard).
Maintain local or dilution ventilation to keep air concentration below 100 ppm. Loading, unloading, tank gauging, etc., remain
upwind. Request assistance of safety and industrial hygiene personnel to determine air concentrations.

So dangerous stuff!

Wilf

[SteveW]

Uuu,
Just checked petrol has a flash point of -43°C, a great deal of care must be taken when storing this flammable liquid.

So, Coleman juice at -18°C on any day is another one to watch. Think I'll stick to paraffin or Kerosene with a flash point up at 100°C to 162°C.

[92220]

I think Australian schools are doing a lot of experimentation with technology, at the moment. I regularly get anything up to 15 or 20 emails in my Spam folder. Luckily I can delete them all with just one mouse click. How do i know it is an Australian school? Because the email address is an Australian college, and the email address ends in .au.....unless a hacker somewhere else is hiding the true address......which I suppose is just possible. They must have got my address, along with others, from somewhere else because my internet protection software hasn't come up with anything, and I do a regular scan of the whole computer.

Bob.

[Deleted]

I recall an experiment going wrong in my physics class, I must have been 15. The experiment involved symple elements....hrdrogen, oxygen and water.

There we were, the whole class sitting up close to the teachers desk, one of thosemassive old desks built like a fortress. I think you can guess the result from mixing these 3 elements...yep...BANG blowing most of us backwards off our chairs

[springcrocus]

Nov 21, 2022 16:48:20 GMT @greenglade said:

I recall an experiment going wrong in my physics class, I must have been 15. The experiment involved symple elements....hrdrogen, oxygen and water.

There we were, the whole class sitting up close to the teachers desk, one of thosemassive old desks built like a fortress. I think you can guess the result from mixing these 3 elements...yep...BANG blowing most of us backwards off our chairs

Umm... Sorry, Pete, but I think your memory is playing tricks on you. Water is only an element in the ancient "earth, air, fire and water" scenario. Now, hydrogen and oxygen, that could be fun.

Regards, Steve

[Deleted]

Could be Steve but water was certainly in the equation....

[suctionhose]

There was a case recently at a nearby school involving a tiny lab fire...seems a certain member of our family may have been involved!??

Seriously though, we are witnessing adults that were robbed of their childhood by do gooders.

I grew up in the bush in a pop-up town near the dam site where dad worked as a civil engineer. I was schooled in explosives - kids were blowing their fingers off with stray detonators - dad cut up a stick of jelignite on the dining room table and we always had a good time on cracker night (Guy Fawkes).

I went to work with dad sometimes. He'd stick me on an excavator or in a rock truck for 'child minding'. Several family portraits taken in the mud with mum wearing a hard hat.

Joining 'the men' for rock blasting was always good especially if you got to push the button on the exploder. Family trips down working mine shafts came later...

As kids, we always had something on fire. Plenty of satisfying explosions. Bolt bombs. Bungers. Sacrificial boilers. We also had pellet guns, knives, 'violent' toys. A friend brought over an absolutely lethal crossbow once...

We abseiled off a 50 ft pole out the back for fun, jumped our bikes off everything, rope swings at the river were normal. I drove mum's car around the house (and into town a few times) and we generally enjoyed being kids...

You know what? Not a burn. Not a broken bone. No missing fingers. Oh only one scar from a bad stack on my bike on the way home from piano lessons. Loose gravel. It just went out from under me...

What the hell happened to everyone?

[flyingfox]

Peter,

I think you were probably talking about the electroless of water, and the reigniting of the resultant Hydrogen & Oxygen. Problem is the gases generated are absolutely at the correct ratio for the most energetic reaction, and the igniting of these gases, generated in this way are mostly banned by Education authorities, were in Essex anyway, mainly due to the strength of the explosion. Igniting hydrogen, generated by acid reaction in a test tube is quite safe to "Pop". Hydrogen has very wide explosive limits with oxygen, 3% to 97% I seem to remember, and a very low ignition energy. Something else to worry about with Hydrogen fuelled cars.

regards
Brian B

[ettingtonliam]

When I was in my final year at school doing A level organic chemistry, I was doing an experiment one day, I've forgotten what I was supposed to be making, but it came out as a strange gas, smelling of rotting rhubarb, which necessitated everyone being evacuated from the lab for an hour or so. The teacher and I tried to analyse what I'd made, which as far as we could tell was something like phenyl iso propyl something or other. Years later I saw this stuff on a list of banned chemical weapons of mass desctruction---.

[uuu]

So you see boys, if I apply this lighted taper to a bell jar of hydrogen it burns with a squeaky pop...


...BANG

Wilf

[jackrae]

Am I right in thinking that kids in school chemistry classes no longer get to familiarise themselves with the smell of chemicals
If that is the case then how are they, in later life, supposed to recognise dangerous from safe products in the air

[oldnorton]

I can identify hydrogen cyanide, hydrogen sulphide and ammonia, to mention three gasses, but how useful is that to any school age youngsters today? Graduate chemists yes.

[SteveW]

Nov 22, 2022 15:35:50 GMT oldnorton said:

I can identify hydrogen cyanide, hydrogen sulphide and ammonia, to mention three gasses, but how useful is that to any school age youngsters today? Graduate chemists yes.

I've always taken the position that if I know what can hurt me I might be better placed to see it coming and execute the appropriate moves to get out of the 'kin way before its too late.

This strategy has worked well for me so far and I include getting my PSA level checked regularly. Having side stepped the PSA thing and with the souvenir scares I await the next thing.

[jem]

I used to make explosives, and filled the old soda water steel refill bulbs, and with an electrical spark, they went off with a hell of a bang, I have survived unscathed. unfortunately it is now very difficult to get some of those chemicals now a days. Kids cannot do this anymore.

what a life

Jem

[springcrocus]

Nov 22, 2022 18:16:53 GMT jem said:

I used to make explosives, and filled the old soda water steel refill bulbs, and with an electrical spark, they went off with a hell of a bang, I have survived unscathed. unfortunately it is now very difficult to get some of those chemicals now a days. Kids cannot do this anymore.

what a life

Jem

Weedkiller and sugar with a bit of eureka wire and a 9v torch battery? Or a copper tube with a Jetex fuse poked through a hole. Sodium or potassium chlorate made excellent oxidizers.

When I was at school, we used those "Quink" ink bottles - easy to drill two holes in the lid in the metalwork shop.

Ah, the good old days.

Regards, Steve

[suctionhose]

Nov 22, 2022 19:06:40 GMT springcrocus said:

Nov 22, 2022 18:16:53 GMT jem said:

I used to make explosives, and filled the old soda water steel refill bulbs, and with an electrical spark, they went off with a hell of a bang, I have survived unscathed. unfortunately it is now very difficult to get some of those chemicals now a days. Kids cannot do this anymore.

what a life

Jem

Weedkiller and sugar with a bit of eureka wire and a 9v torch battery? Or a copper tube with a Jetex fuse poked through a hole. Sodium or potassium chlorate made excellent oxidizers.

When I was at school, we used those "Quink" ink bottles - easy to drill two holes in the lid in the metalwork shop.

Ah, the good old days.

Regards, Steve

Wish I coulda hung around with you fellas...

[ettingtonliam]

Calcium carbide in an empety Brasso tin, top off with water (makes acetylene) screw top in and quickly chuck into river or lake. About 5 seconds and 'Boom' big column of water, dead fish float to surface.
In later life I got to learn all about hard rock blasting which can be really scary. Like the time I was very close to 4 tons of commercial explosive when it went off, owing to the security guard being AWOL, and no one warning me that it was firing time.