ALUMINIUM CYLINDERS

[firebird]

Hi

I'm thinking ahead here. I have, waiting in the wings, a part built Sweetpea loco which might move to the fore once I have Chub completed and running. I have the frames and wheels and a few bits. What I don't have is the cylinders, steam chests, cylinder covers etc.

When I built Conway I hacked the cylinders out of blocks of cast iron, quite successfully

For Sweetpea I fancied using bronze so I knocked up some wood shapes



And took them down to a local foundry and asked for a price. Nice bloke chatted for a while then asked me if I would like to sit down. He explained that the cost of bronze has rocketed over 4 fold and I would be looking at at least £400.00 + VAT!!!!!

Back to the drawing board.

I remember a while back that someone had built a Sweetpea completely from aluminium. From memory the only problem he had was traction due to insufficient weight so had to add some lead weights.

My question is is aluminium suitable for cylinders. I ask because I have a couple of blocks of aluminium in stock or would I be better off buying some cast iron.

Has anyone tried it if so was it successful

Cheers

Rich

[millman]

I would think that wear might be a problem with ally, perhaps you could bush the cylinder with bronze, same for steamchest valve rod and rear cylinder cover. Cast iron would be my choice, Blackgates castings for Sweet Pea are good, decent machining allowances and nice bit of iron to machine, don’t know what current price is, long time since I purchased mine.

[firebird]

Hi

Looking on the blackgates online catalogue I have the cylinders are priced at £ 207.65 + vat but may well have gone up since then. Its worth looking at alternatives I think.

Cheers

Rich

[andyhigham]

You could use aluminium with cast iron liners, many millions of car and motorcycle engines are done this way.
OR
You could also use a company that restores motorcycle cylinders and have the bores "Nikasil" plated
You would need a cast iron or bronze valve face, This and / or the cylinder liner would make port and steam passage cutting very easy

[mr swarf]

Dec 26, 2022 13:19:37 GMT firebird said:

Hi

Looking on the blackgates online catalogue I have the cylinders are priced at £ 207.65 + vat but may well have gone up since then. Its worth looking at alternatives I think.

Cheers

Rich

The Oct 22 catalogue shows them at £280 +vat but i think they went up again in November.
If you can produce them yourself from cast iron sections, as you did for your Conway, there are savings to be made.
Paul

[millman]

Blimey this hobby’s getting expensive!

[firebird]

Hi

Many moons ago I built a beam engine that was made predominantly from car parts salvaged from our scrap bin at work.





For the cylinder I used a rear brake cylinder from a Rover car. It's aluminium. I machined the ports similar to how Andy has suggested.
The port plate is brass and so is the piston, probably the wrong material but I didn't know any better at the time.



Here's a video of it running on steam

youtu.be/m12bdcT-Yn0

It hasn't done a lot of work but hasn't seized up

Cheers

Rich

[flyingfox]

Greetings Rich, I have had bad experiences with Aluminium used where it may be in contact with water and copper/brass materials, with strong electrolytic corrosion. I understand how expensive one off casting in iron are, but they are tried & tested.
However, I have spoken to a number of people who have successfully machined various parts, including cylinders, from solid cast iron bar and round stock, which is of very high quality, and machines easily. So for my next 71/4 locomotive, the cylinders will be machined from solid bar, at a cost of £55.00 each, much less than the quoted figure for castings. Yes it will be more machining, but is that not what the machines are for? I will use bar for end covers.
Not wishing to put you off, but all the Winson/Modelworks cylinders were made this way, and they seemed to work when machined properly.
Regards
Brian B

[firebird]

Hi Brian

Thanks for the reply

I figured cast iron might be the best way.

It's just that I have 2 blocks of aluminium under the bench.

I guess the old tried and trusted ways are the best

Cheers

Rich

[Cro]

The aluminium ‘Pea’ you are thinking of is electric, not steam.

I have a spare, fully machined Pea Cylinder in CI with chest and cover, I’ll get a photo later, £50 + postage and it’s yours.

Adam

[firebird]

Hi Adam

Yes please

Cheers

Rich

[Cro]

Rich,

Drop me a PM we’ll chat.

Adam

[lesstoneuk]

Dec 26, 2022 20:00:28 GMT millman said:

Blimey this hobby’s getting expensive!

That's why I've gone electric. I looked at the price of a finished boiler and basically said "pray good sir, tis a goodly price that thy cannot be privvy to with thine homely wrench". At least with an electric, 20 or 30 sovs is an acceptable outlay for various parts during construction. I just have to go without products of Green King or Banks. The missus is happy with that and a couple of my new tools are used on her camper's wiring looms.

[suctionhose]

Dec 26, 2022 20:00:28 GMT millman said:

Blimey this hobby’s getting expensive!

My most recent model, a traction engine, cost $36 a week and sustained me for 7 years. I can't think of a more fulfilling thing to spend a few bucks on!

[David]

I guess the cost effectiveness varies based upon how much material you already have and what you're willing to fabricate yourself.

I cannot see myself building another copper boiler the way things are. Steel and brass and copper have all gone to the too expensive basket for me and I'd bet the prices are never coming down again. I don't want to know how much a professional boiler would cost now, which I don't think was often an option for people in Australia anyway.

At least there's lots of rolling stock that can be built if you need a project.

Perhaps buying those Chinese ready to run locos and reworking them is a cost-effective way to get something?

[millman]

Jan 3, 2023 23:19:10 GMT suctionhose said:

Dec 26, 2022 20:00:28 GMT millman said:

Blimey this hobby’s getting expensive!

My most recent model, a traction engine, cost $36 a week and sustained me for 7 years. I can't think of a more fulfilling thing to spend a few bucks on!

According to my pencil and paper, couldn’t find a calculator, that is just over $13K total, now if only we could pay weekly for our boilers. A mate of mine has a LBSC Speedy, boiler has started leaking after about 40 years service and he has been quoted £4K for a silver soldered one, delivery this time next year, TIG welded are cheaper but he wanted silver soldered, also his Speedy is a pimped up one and he wants the new boiler an exact copy of the old one,.

[suctionhose]

New thread: "Cost of the hobby"