darrene
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Post by darrene on Mar 22, 2023 16:00:17 GMT
I picked up today what I think may be a bit of a rare beast. A 5" gauge Greenly 241 PLM. I say think as despite some extensive searching, I can't find evidence of another one ever built to compare it against.
I've asked for the GA from Maxitrak and will compare some of the dimensions. I think the builder probably freelanced some parts of the build - perhaps not too surprising as I don't think the drawings are particularly comprehensive. Most of it seems identical but the running boards and cylinder position seems different to both the drawings and the full size locos. I'm not convinced that the cylinder steam pipes are prototypical either.
The builder used to be a member of the Nottingham Society of Model and Experimental Engineers but that's as much as I know of it's history, so if anyone knows anything about it, I'd love to hear. It's clearly been run in the past and sat for a long period of time as there's an impressive collection of dust and the paintwork is certainly past it's best 
Interesting features I've found so far are; A steam or vacuum brake (I haven't investigated which yet) behind the rear bogie
a comprehensive wick-oiler system
No visible mechanical means of water delivery, so I'm assuming it relied solely on injectors
What look to be the remnants of a sanding system forward of the first drivers.
A lot of split pins!
A squint at the cab side panels just about gives some evidence to the builders intentions too.
Darren
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
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Post by mbrown on Mar 22, 2023 16:45:09 GMT
What a fascinating machine! Do think about setting up a thread to record your work on it.
On the brake, a vacuum cylinder normally "pulls up" whereas steam brakes usually (not invariably) push out from the cylinder to apply the brake. A vacuum cylinder will tend to be bigger because of the much lower pressure differential involved.
Good luck with this beast - it would/will be great to see it completed one day.
Malcolm
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Post by begineur on Mar 22, 2023 16:47:26 GMT
Elle a de beaux restes la bête, mais manque la chaudière de cette 241P..LM, anglicisée.. Pretty photos!
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Mar 22, 2023 17:45:36 GMT
Thank you very much for the comments. My first job is to strip her down, clean, repaint and reassemble her. I will be sure to keep the thread updated! Thank you for the education regarding brakes Malcolm, that makes a lot of sense and on that basis, I'd be confident in saying it'll be a steam brake. A few more point of interest I have found; Drive is to the first axle. This is faithful to the Henry Greenly design, although unusual for the 241 class I think? (I am very much learning about the loco!) From what I can tell, only the first variant - the 241A had such a drive arrangement. I can't imagine it was too successful as the subsequent 241C, 241D and 241P all seemed to move drive to the second axle. The builder has incorporated adjustable bearings into the rods, throughout;  The dual feed lubricator splits the delivery between both cylinders for redundancy  which then feed directly into the steam elbows  Apologies for the state of the loco in the photos. I haven't had a chance to clean her very much yet. It's on the job list for tomorrow though! Darren |
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Mar 23, 2023 11:45:23 GMT
Rods, brake hangers and bogie are now all of for cleaning and painting. I'm already rather tired of pinned nuts 
I've had a look at Greenlys boiler plans which show a 5-6-6-4 tube layout with a 5-row radiant superheater.
Darren
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Post by simon6200 on Mar 23, 2023 21:21:01 GMT
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Post by ettingtonliam on Mar 24, 2023 8:01:21 GMT
An impressive loco, but I don't envy you the task of building a boiler for it!
I'm curious why the tender has the lettering 'LNER 1127' when as far as I can tell, LNER 1127 was an ex North Eastern 0 6 2 tank loco.
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Mar 24, 2023 19:04:05 GMT
Oh my gosh! Thanks ever so much for the heads-up Simon. I really appreciate it. Looks a beaut too. I need to try and make contact with him I think! If I message you my email on here, would you mind passing it on to him and ask if he minds me mailing him? Darren |
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Mar 24, 2023 19:12:56 GMT
An impressive loco, but I don't envy you the task of building a boiler for it! I'm curious why the tender has the lettering 'LNER 1127' when as far as I can tell, LNER 1127 was an ex North Eastern 0 6 2 tank loco. I’ve just spoken to my boiler maker who reckons it would be a category 2 and therefore not something he’d be able to make. That may be no bad thing as to cushion the financial blow of a boiler that size, I’d prefer to put a steel one on. I just neee d to find a builder. There’s a coded welder of full sized boilers just up the road from me that I probably need to start some friendly enquiries with… |
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Post by simon6200 on Mar 24, 2023 20:51:02 GMT
Darren I’ll certainly pass it on to Arthur.
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Mar 24, 2023 21:09:05 GMT
Cheers Simon, much obliged |
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Post by simon6200 on Mar 25, 2023 3:43:02 GMT
I have sent your email address to Arthur.
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Mar 25, 2023 10:36:16 GMT
An impressive loco, but I don't envy you the task of building a boiler for it! I'm curious why the tender has the lettering 'LNER 1127' when as far as I can tell, LNER 1127 was an ex North Eastern 0 6 2 tank loco. Looking closely at the lettering, i think it may be ‘LNER N27’ would that make any more sense? There’s a faint diagonal which is mostly obscured by the rivet line. The lettering on the other side is, curiously, covered with ancient making tape. Once I’ve managed to soak that off, I’ll compare… |
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Mar 25, 2023 10:38:11 GMT
I have sent your email address to Arthur. Thanks Simon. I’ve also made contact with someone who knew Helmet - the builder of Arthur’s loco. It’s a small world! He believes Arthur’s loco may be the last loco Helmet made. |
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Post by ianholder on Mar 25, 2023 12:17:18 GMT
On the dust jacket of my 1954 copy of Greenlys Model Steam Locos there is a picture of Mr W. P. Stewart of County Durham with a part built PLM 241. If there's anyone from that area on the forum they may be able to track it down, or try the websites of clubs in that area. I think that Mr. Stewart was the builder of the 15" gauge Flying Scotsman that at one time was at Bressingham, regards Ian
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Mar 25, 2023 12:29:16 GMT
On the dust jacket of my 1954 copy of Greenlys Model Steam Locos there is a picture of Mr W. P. Stewart of County Durham with a part built PLM 241. If there's anyone from that area on the forum they may be able to track it down, or try the websites of clubs in that area. I think that Mr. Stewart was the builder of the 15" gauge Flying Scotsman that at one time was at Bressingham, regards Ian Oo, that’s extremely interesting. Thanks very much for the tip Ian - I’ll follow it up found the picture, I think! Darren |
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Post by ettingtonliam on Mar 25, 2023 19:42:43 GMT
An impressive loco, but I don't envy you the task of building a boiler for it! I'm curious why the tender has the lettering 'LNER 1127' when as far as I can tell, LNER 1127 was an ex North Eastern 0 6 2 tank loco. Looking closely at the lettering, i think it may be ‘LNER N27’ would that make any more sense? There’s a faint diagonal which is mostly obscured by the rivet line. The lettering on the other side is, curiously, covered with ancient making tape. Once I’ve managed to soak that off, I’ll compare… As far as I can tell, there wasn't an LNER classification 'N27'. There was an 'N2', and given the LNER's like of creating sub-classes to cover minor dfferences within the main classification, I wondered if there had been an N2/7 classification, but no, they seemed to have stopped at N2/4. Be interesting to see what the other side says when you get the maskingtape off! |
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Post by begineur on Mar 26, 2023 12:45:06 GMT
Thank you very much for the comments. My first job is to strip her down, clean, repaint and reassemble her. I will be sure to keep the thread updated!Darren We are waiting you hopefully! |
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Apr 12, 2023 11:05:46 GMT
I have begun the strip down of the PLM and started an initial clean-up. It's going to be a long process i think!
The ashpan shows evidence of a fair amount of use in the past. Some patches of rust at various spots make me wonder if it ultimately suffered a boiler failure, on account of their locations.
The lubrication boxes are coming up well
The most nerve-wracking part so far and from the point of view of disassembly the daftest is the method by which the rear bogie is constructed: the axle is held in place by a U-shaped plate on the side of the frame, the idea being that the axle is free to float in the bracket. The U-shaped plates are attached with a pair of slot-headed screws fore and aft, which can only be inserted and removed through the spokes of the trailing wheels. I was convinced they would have corroded enough for the slots to in the heads to give up! Eventually they were all out although they all need replacing for safety. I’ll get some pictures when it’s out on the bench again.
Darren
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darrene
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Post by darrene on Apr 13, 2023 17:22:11 GMT
The bonkers trailing bogie on the PLM. I'm so glad it came off without an issue...
It uses 4, canted, coil-over springs inboard of the frames and cunningly angled axleboxes to provide some rear-wheel-steering.
I don't know whether Henry Greenly used this trailing axle setup on anything else and I don't know which if any commercial manufacturers offered castings for his locos but the bottom plate is certainly a casting, specific to the design.
Darren
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