5" Jubilee 4-6-0: advice?

[Peter Hale]

I am trying to decide whether to start a 5" LMS Jubilee (nostalgia from childhood).

I was getting excited about Tony Alcock's "Galatea", until I realised the amount of detail (90 castings!) and enormous expense.

The alternative seems to be Martin Evan's "Leander" with drawings and castings available from both Blackgates and Reeves. But I have heard that Evans' drawings are error-prone.

Or perhaps Galatea without all the detail?

(My experience to date is of having just finished a Juliet II chassis as an exhibition piece - running on air. I belong to a club, so plenty of experience available).

Any advice much appreciated.

Peter Hale

[teakfreak]

I can't answer the question, having no experience with either design, but I would point out that there are a great many examples of Martin Evans' various designs running, and for the most part they seem to work well. He was (and still is!) renowned for errors in his drawings, but I don't believe most of these were showstoppers, rather niggling and irritating. Not sure if Alan Stepney has a page on "Leander" errors, perhaps none have been discovered yet!

[waggy]

Hello Peter,

I've built and run Tony Allcock's Jubilee. It's a lovely job when finished, it looks and runs very well.
The Martin Evans design is based on the Royal Scot chassis of his design. A fine runner but incorrect detail. I'd advise using Allcocks drawings and the wheels available from Blackgates. (They took over where Norman Spink left off, when he departed our world.) The castings for the loco and tender are all available but you don't need half of them, fabrication is the answer. I've sent you a personal message, I'll discuss matters further with you in there. There are a few problems with the drawings but I won't be drawn into an online discussion, I don't want to be seen to criticise anothers work.

Regards,

Waggy.

[chris vine]

Hi Peter,

I would strongly suggest starting with the better scale drawings and leaving stuff out to suit. That way, you can make it as good as you like. It is rather frustrating to start with something that is badly proportioned or way off scale and find that you want to make things better as you progress.

Chris.

[alanstepney]

If any of you has actual experience of building any model and finds errors in the drawings, please let me know.

I never blame the designers, as mistakes happen, and if we wanted perfection, we probably couldnt afford to pay for it!
However, a mistake that YOU find could save someone else from making the same, perhaps costly, mistake.
If reading through my "errors" pages does no more than encourage people to double check that particular item /section/dimension, it is worthwhile.

[paultomlinson]

Hi Peter
The first loco I built was a Tony Alcocks Jubilee and I've built another since! There are a few niggly errors on the drawings but I would recommend this loco over the Martin Evans design. As already suggested just leave the detail off that you don't want but dont forget it's the detail that makes the loco look good. As on the drawings I used Gordon Chiverton fittings including a scale looking (exhaust steam) injector and a working vacuum system. Does anybody have contact details for Gordon? I have also used fittings by Doug Hewson and Dave Noble, all worth doing if you want a decent looking loco.
As for castings for this loco, Blackgates is the only supplier and i suggest you order well in advance, I am still waiting for some castings which were ordered over two years ago!! Very frustrating, particularly when I ordered castings from the late Norman Spinks which were alwayd delivered within a few days.

Paul

[waggy]

Peter, Paul,

When I built mine I looked for Gordons fittings but no joy. I finished the loco in 2002 using some of Dave Noble and Doug Hewsons fittings. Since then I've gone on to making my own. Not too difficult, just fiddly.
Hopefully somebody will know the answer regarding Gordon.

Regards,

Waggy.

[mutley]

As I understand the situation Gordon supplies his fittings exclusivley via Polly Model Engineering. I'd give them a call and see what they can do.

Andy

[waggy]

Thanks Andy. Knew somebody would have the answer.

Regards,

Waggy.

[Peter Hale]

Thanks to all for comments.
I'm still not sure!: I want it to run in the foreseeable future; as log as it looks more or less like a Jubilee, I'm not worried about absolute scale and detail. And I am currently experiencing non-response from the supplier who has the monopoly on Galatea drawings and castings!
Two years!, Paul T: trust these castings are something out of the ordinary!?

Peter Hale

[mutley]

The best way to get hold of Blackgates is by picking up the phone!

[mutley]

Let's not go here again. For every person who's had a bad experince there will be as many who have had a good one. I dont believe Blackgates do their own castings so are at the mercy of their suppliers in the same way anyone else is.
Dont be put of by the fact Tony Allcock's Jubilee is possibly an unusual model. The 9F isnt exactly common and Ive always received my castings by return of post.

Andy

[ron]

Apologies for posting my experience, I thought that was what forums were for, I've removed my comments and will make no more!
Ron

[mutley]

Hi Ron
Yes that is what forums are for, however I've seen threads similar to this degenarate into- this supplier is better than this one type arguments that get us nowhere. All I'm trying to say is that for every positive experince there is probably a negative somewhere, hence my positive to match your negative.





Andy

[Deleted]

Miriam-Webster On-line Dictionary: FORUM

a:the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business
b: a public meeting place for open discussion
c: a medium (as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas

Doesn't this mean we should expect ideas to be expressed that we (or some) may consider negative to the original idea?

[Peter Hale]

Mutley,
They might be at the mercy of suppliers for castings, but I ordered two drawings 3 1/2 weeks ago and have chased twice, but still no drawings and no promised return call.
This is not the sort of company I want to rely on for a long term project, involving great time and expense.
It is also of concern that long deliveries often mean a cash flow problem (no credit with suppliers) which can be followed by business failure. I wonder what then happens to the patterns over which they have the monopoly?
Oh dear, what to do!?
Peter H

[ianmac]

Hi Peter,

It’s really not fair for you to infer that a company is about to go bankrupt because they haven’t sent you some plans or called you back on time.

To be fair there could be any number of reasons that the plans haven’t arrived and as for the phone call have you thought that the person may be flat out and has forgotten.

Sorry to deviate but it’s really not fair draw conclusions about the operational sides of someone’s business just because you didn’t get some plans.

Ian

[Peter Hale]

Ian,

I haven't drawn a conclusion - I'm saying what could be the case. And it's not just that they haven't called ME back - a lot of members of this forum have had similar problems. Highly relevant to my impending decision whether to invest in an expensive loco with them.

I ran a business for 16 years myself - it is basic to keep in touch with a customer when there's a problem - not to ignore them.

Peter H

[ianmac]

I also have run a business and I work in a customer focused industry and I absolutely agree that keeping your customers informed and up-to-date should be at the top of your to-do list each and every day.

Some people are not good at this and when a problem arises they pop their head into the sand and hope that it will go away. It does not mean that a business is going under but it does mean that they should improve their customer service.

BTW you could always make your own patterns and find a foundry to cast your bits for you ;D If it were me i would let someone else do it for me! ;D

Ian

[Peter Hale]

Ian,
Thanks for message.
My drawings arrived yesterday so I feel a little bit better. But am still concerned about the number of forum members experiencing long castings delivery times.
I am tending towards Leander, even if it's less true to prototype - a safer choice as there are two suppliers.
I am certainly NOT into making patterns - want a chance of finishing the thing during my lifetime!
Peter H