The simplest 5" to build?

[havoc]

Went to the open days of my club and got envious of those running their 5" engines. I'm slowly getting everything together for building one but that engine is going to take years to build. And I don't just want to wait. There are kids in the family that are just the right age to enjoy a ride now, not in 5-10 years when I finish the current project.

So what would be the easiest/simplest 5" engine to build? What's the most basic you can get?

I would build it to get some experience before tackling the one I really want. But it should be able to pull myself and 2 kids. So no difficult to get castings, no thousands of rivets, disc wheels, no tender, no fancy bodywork. Don't care if it is standard or narrow gauge or freelance. No complicated distribution or kilometers of apparant pipework.

I was thinking something along the lines of Taffy, a De Winton engine. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Taffy.jpg

[jackrae]

That's an easy one - a battery driven electric !!
But I presume you mean steam.
Simplex is supposed to be simple and that's what I've had, part-built on my bench for more years than I'll admit to.
jack

[mutley]

sweat pea!

[dinmoremanor]

I'd be inclined to agree with Mutley, Sweet Pea is a reasonably simple engine to construct, something smaller that may be worth a look would be a Scamp. If you are in a hurry then there are plenty of laser cut parts available for sweet pea too.

[havoc]

I'm not for using laser cut parts to gain time, I'd rather have less parts. Don't know if the difference is clear. Neither am I sure a battery driven is easy. If I look at those running at our club, they sport more rivets and details than the steam engines. I have the impression they trade simpler "motor power" for more detail.

Took a look at both Simplex and Sweet Pea. From what I see, Simplex isn't really simple. Full walschaerts, rather elaborate bodywork, prototype buffers and couplings. Sweet Pea looks simpler if you ommit the sadlle tank. I'm not sure about the marine boiler however. (it is one from what I see in the photo's, isn't it?)

[mutley]

Sweat Pea has a marine boiler which is simpler to make having no side stays and all main sub assemblies being based around tubes. Dont be concerned about its abiltiy to make steam though, I've never seen a 'breathless' Pea.

You dont have to make Pea with a saddle tank, in fact one of the beauties of a a sweat Pea is the ability to customise it the way you want to. I once new a Pea with pannier tanks and it looked great.

Andy

[AndrewP]

If it doesn't have to be steam then Maxitrak do a 4 wheel 2 motor chassis kit for 400UKP that you could put a basic scratchbuilt body on - how about a tram body?
Probably the cheapest/ quickest way to get driving without just buying ready to run.
I'm not sure that De Winton is easier - no published plans yet and that inside Stephensons (or Joy?) valve gear has got to be a right ****** to get at. I have been playing with a design for such a beast for some time.
Somebody elses half built loco is not always a time saver either - just don't ask how I know that!

Andy

[peterseager]

I started from where you are and decided the other club members were having too much fun, so I bought a Simplex. They are relatively cheap and easy to run.

I reckon it was a good move. I've been trying to build a loco for years but now I do have a loco in the mean time. Having your own loco also helps when building one of your own because you have personal experience to work from. If you end up buying a boiler and laser cut parts to speed things up you may find that cost wise there is not much in it.

Don't be tempted by a 3.5" gauge like Rob Roy. The standing joke in the club is that if you can build one you can build anything and the same with driving it.

Battery/Electric is worth a look. Ready to run they are relatively cheap and children will be able to drive themselves (H&S permitting) at an younger age. Kids also seem to accept them as normal. They can also be run immediately, which can be useful, and only need the batteries charged afterwards. My Hymek has had much more use than the Simplex this year because of these attributes.

Hope this helps.

Peter

Peter

[durhambuilder]

Maxitrak / Maidstone Model Engineering do plans for their Ruby, another very simple engine with few castings.

[havoc]

Sweat Pea has a marine boiler which is simpler to make having no side stays and all main sub assemblies being based around tubes.

That's good news. Seaching the web for photo's of Sweet Pea showed indeed a lot of variations. Shouldn't be to hard to find one to my liking.

I'm not sure that De Winton is easier - no published plans yet and that inside Stephensons (or Joy?) valve gear has got to be a right ****** to get at. I have been playing with a design for such a beast for some time.

From what I saw of Taffy the valve gear looked very easy to get at (compared to inside cilinders). I hoped there would be plans for it somewhere, no luck I guess.

Somebody elses half built loco is not always a time saver either - just don't ask how I know that!

Don't tell me, I heard a horror story about it this sunday. Nobody advised to go that route.

Don't be tempted by a 3.5" gauge like Rob Roy.

3.5" looks a lot harder than 5": just as much parts but they are a lot smaller. Another advantage of 5" is that there is more track available to me in 5".

I really want a steam engine and get my hands dirty. There is at least one Sweet Pea in the club so some help or at least an example should be available. However I'll take a look at Ruby. Having a bit variation on the track is nice as well.

[jgb7573]

We've had a couple of De Winton's running on our club track. They go, but are not so easy to keep going as they seem, particularly firing on the run. Getting coal down the shute and into the firebox with a bent handled shovel while everything is jig-jig-jiggering about is quite entertaining.

I drove one of them on its first day out. It was great fun until the glycerine in the sight feed lubricator got blown straight into the cylinders, out through the blast pipe and chimney to land on my head. The builder later added a more comprehensive condenser loop in the steam feed to the lubricator. Happy days ;-)

[dscott]

This is the problem with the traditional De-Winton, this is why on my simp there is no chute and no annoying water tank in the way,
just an open footplate and a firehole.

Getting along well with the build and still no castings used, only the stock cast in long lengths stuff.
The crank went together like a dream.

David.

[teakfreak]

Isn't the a 5" gauge version of "Dougal" (Scottish gasworks 0-4-0T Barclay) by David Malcolm in 5" gauge with slip eccentric valve gear? I doubt if you could get any more simple than that! Or, single cylinder mill engine engines have their valves driven by a single fixed eccentric, so why could such an arrangement not be adopted for a railway engine? If there are two cylinders it ought to be self starting or require no more than a nudge in the right direction as for a slip eccentic engine.

[mutley]

Dougal is a little light on its feet and not up to more than a drive and child passenger.

Andy

[steam4ian]

G'day

Being in the same quest myself I would have to say the "Blowfly" is generally simpler that Sweat Pea, it has the minimum number of parts. Blowy is by all reports a very sound design if appearing somewhat crude, it has plenty of pulling power. It would probably make a good club loco. From my experiance build/get a loco with lots of headroom in the boiler particularly for undulating track.

Regards
Ian

[Tel]

Yep, 'Blowfly' is a good choice, and very similar to the English 'Scamp', either would be a pretty simple build. Take it from me 'Simplex' ain't.

[Shawki Shlemon]

I think Blowfly is cheaper too , slip eccentric valves , you can finish it in any style you like as it is a free lance , its proven as there are literally 100s of them here, there is no club that does not have few. Normal disclaimer.

[ivanp]

how about doug hewsons Y4
he sells all the bits and laser cut parts as well

Ivan

[havoc]

Okay, so that leaves Sweet Pea and Blowfly as the most likely candidates. From surfing around for images they both come in enough variations to find something pleasing. Both also have a book available. I have enquiered at my club if and who has one of these engines.

Thanks for the advise.

[havoc]

Small update:

There are 3 Sweet Peas in the club, but all 3.5". I got the remark that in 5" it is a rather large engine. Can anyone elaborate? From the photo's I found it looked like about 600mm long to me.

One more question about Blowfly: I understand this is an australian design, correct? If so, then in what units are the plans?

This last is something I forgot about: units of the plans. As Sweet Pea is english the plans are imperial. And that will mean changing on the fly with all possible issues. If Blowfly is metric then I find that an important advantage.