Mini Lathe Advice to a newcomer

[terryhowlett]

I wish to purchase a mini lathe as a combination hobby and light engineering machine. Any advice on which makes are best etc would be appreciated. I've also seen good and bad views on 3 in 1 Lathe/Mill/Drill machines - any views on that would be appreciated also. I'd prefer the ability to switch between metric/Imperial as I do not feel qualified to choose which i should start with!

Many thanks to any advice on any of this!

Terry

[Jo]

Terry,

We will need some more information on what you are hoping to be able to do with the machine, how much space you may have to put it in and your budget...

Jo

[terryhowlett]

Jo,

I've made scale models all my life, and recently I am finding the need to perhaps turn or mill small parts. I have a number of 4mm scale (P4) model locomotives and find I want to manufacture my own parts, especially brass chassis frames and component parts etc. The chassis frames are usually no longer than 9 inches absolute max but require precision holes for axles etc. All very precision small scale stuff. But I do wish to progress to larger scales like O guage (large for me) and perhaps minature working steam engines (the industrial kind). I just enjoy making things and no doubt will aspire to making things of larger scale eventually. Minature aero engines also hold a fascination!

I do fancy trying some general engineering on a small scale also. I guess I crave for a very accurate quality machine, that will take me from the precision of 4mm scale modelling up to some general small engineering projects and other tool manufacture.

Space is currently an issue, with a small study (12 x 8 feet aprox) available for now as a temporary workshop. Budget is less of an issue, but I guess I don't want to spend more than £1500 max on lathe/mill/drill plus accessories in whatever combination is best. I would push that a little if I had to for quality and flexibility. I expect over time to have to spend more to expand my tool range etc.

I hope that helps. By the way, I notice you are from Hampshire. I live part of the time in Winchester.

Thanks

Terry

[jempc]

For the smaller scales (up to and including 16mm scale live steam) the Peatol / TAIG lathe and mill, and the Sherline lathe and mill have a good reputation and can often be had second hand for 150 - 200 GBP (the lathes that is - the mills seem to be much rarer). I've not used them myself, but then neither have I built anything of note!

I've personally got a Hobbymat MD65 lathe of east German Manufacture and am quite fond of it, although it has its flaws. I'm sure others here with more experience will be able to offer more advice.

[Jo]

Terry,

If you want to make even the smallest of Stuart model's steam engines then you are likely to struggle on a mini lathe.

If you want a combination then you probably could not do better than an Emco like the one on Fleabay that John has just posted the handbook to. My concern is that it may feel a bit too big for the size work you are thinking of.

I note that there is also a Proxxon on Fleabay at the moment. cgi.ebay.co.uk/PROXXON-PD-400-LATHE-METAL-LATHE-HOBBY-LATHE-/140507123684?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item20b6e08fe4
very nice quality lathe, the milling head would set you back about another £650 new.

(My small lathe is also a Hobbymat - lovely German lathe. I would willingly swop it for a Lorch or Pultra or the proxxon if only they came as well equipped).

Jo

[goldstar31]

Frankly, I'd concentrate more on a well equipped smaller lathe rather a 3 in 1 or even a Myford. Yes, I have the latter but to get the smaller work comfortably done, a lathe should ideally have collets rather than swing a chuck which will accomodate a bloody big 4" or 6" chunk of metal. Now comes a sneaky remark to say that I have a surprisingly well equipped and second hand Unimat clone in a MJ189 which arrived for about £250 c/w collets.

OK, if push came to shove, I'd buy a small cheap drill complete with a best three way vice ex someone like Machine Mart to supplement my choice.

Before I am finally reduced to being a greater social pariah, Gerald Wingrove did his work on a Unimat.

Finally, I know a lot of 'Myford'/'Boxford' blokes with a little watchmakers/clockmakers lathe hidden under the bench. I was thinking of perhaps a 10mm Pultra.

Regards

Norman

[russell]

While 3 in 1 lathes can do useful work they can also be rather inconvenient. Separate machines are better. For your small work you may also want a higher speed.

Have a look at:
www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Lathes/Model-C3-Mini-Lathe/Model-C3-Mini-Lathe
and:
www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Milling-Machines/Model-Super-X1L-Mill
They are very popular machines available from a number of suppliers. They will come well within your budget for the two and not take up a lot of space. You will have plenty of funds left for tooling and accessories.

Russell.

[steam4ian]

G'day Terry

My first lathe was a 7x12 mini lathe which I have kept because it is handy for smaller jobs. The latests Sieg version has stepper motor drive which should give more low speed torque.

If you do not intend to turn anything over 80mm diameter then the minilathe is a good place to start. My guess is that it was originally designed as a student lathe. The variable speed feature is very convenient but can be a trap at low speeds where high torque is needed. There is a good Yahoo group on which you will find a lot of encouragement, see groups.yahoo.com/group/7x12minilathe/?yguid=116320769

My second lathe is 10 x 22 which should be able to handle everthing for a 5" gauge loco and most 7.25 stuff unless I an building a Stirling Single.

The conventional wisdom is do not get a 3 in 1; In most cases the milling head will be in the way. If you can't afford a mill get a milling vise for the lathe as a starter; it is arguably no less convenient than haveing the milling head on the lathe.

Watch out for drill presses. On the cheaper models the quill floats so holes do not drill true (very frustrating). I have an X2 mill used for drilling as much as anything. Look for a drill press with a long support neck for the quill. Check for horizontal movement with the quill extended, there should be none, make sure there is a means of adjusting out any slack.

Hope this helps
Ian

[goldstar31]

Ian,
I was actually thinking of what is commonly sold for about £30 complete with vise and acceptable vices. With a little bit ger-fiddling, they make excellent tapping heads and saddle drills.
For the Helluv of it, I once made a tool and cutter grinder out of a £10 6" DE grinder and a 3 in 1 vise.

I would expect that our poster merely wants a spot of encouragement to move on to greater things

N

[terryhowlett]

Thanks all who have posted so far, helpful stuff. The 3 in 1 issue is clear, and I am unlikely to go that way! The metric/Imperial issue is nagging me. How does one decide which way to go? Most of the stuff I am dealing in now is metric but I wouldn't want to be limited. I notice higher end machines (even the mini lathes) can adapt to either. Is that a big issue? Also, can a good mill double as a reasonable press drill?

Sorry if my questions seem so basic!

Thanks

Terry

[Smifffy]

Hi Terry,

I'm young enough to have served my time (apprenticeship as opposed to AHMP) as the English was on its way out - so metric, metric, metric all the way for me. I am building a 5" Royal Scot which as per the vast majority of designs is all English, but converting to Metric is very easy with a look up table and/or basic calculator.

Let me give an example:

7/16 - 7/32 = ??

0r:

11.11 - 5.56 is much easier.

Of coure, my arguement will fall over as you can convert from English fractions to English Decimal (thous).

Good luck on your final choice.

Smifffy

[goldstar31]

It's all a bit academic, this metric and imperial lark! One trips out to Lidl -the Universal Provider and puts a tenner on the counter. Simply cut the jaws off and fit to little lathe and heigh ho, you press a button and the thing does a swop over from one to the other.

If you get flumoxed on fractions recall that one of the real drivers of Royal Scots could barely read and write. One of the full size menders of these daft 0-6-0 Martin Evan's things never got much further than a good and an old brass 24" folding rule and a bit of French chalk or a stick on the dirt floor .

I'm having a happy morning.

My turn to duck?

Norm

[Jo]

I have yet to find a lathe or mill that has imperial fractions on the dials.

Terry: What ever you choose pick one measurement system and stick to it - it causes less confusion (and mistakes).

Jo

[Boadicea]

Two points, which have already been made really....
Much of the time I find myself converting from fractions to decimal, so it is only a stage further to convert to metric.
A cheap set of digital calipers can do both, so no problem there. As Young Norman says, digital read-outs can be cheap and easily fitted to any lathe.
So, it does not matter a great deal - just go with what you fancy and feel comfortable with. Second hand metric machines are not plentiful though.
As Jo says, using one system can make it simpler - I find it easier to make mistakes in metric, but that is just me!

[goldstar31]

Feb 3, 2011 8:28:46 GMT Jo said:

I have yet to find a lathe or mill that has imperial fractions on the dials.

Terry: What ever you choose pick one measurement system and stick to it - it causes less confusion (and mistakes).

Jo

If you have a 8TPI pair of feedscrews on the lathe you get fractions of 8, 16, 32 or whatever whilst screws of 10TPI do 10ths etc.

So you can put a pit( Allo Allo?) of white masking tape over your engravings on the dials and romp away -as the old timers did-- with chalked measurements.

With a 8 TPI leadscrew, you have the screw cutting indicator already doing it.

With tongue in cheek, removing socks is another way of counting in tenths. My trouble is that I'm too creaky to avail myself of this excellent but smelly calculator.

'Young' Norm

[teakfreak]

To go back to the original question, I think that a C3 minilathe and an X1 mill would be fine for doing anything up to gauge 1 and smaller Stuart Turner engines, and you'd have change in your budget for tooling. The mill would double up as a drilling machine as well.

Arc Euro now offer an upgraded C3 with a more powerful motor - I think that would be worth considering as it may well deal with the issue that some have raised about poor performance at low speeds. If you are going to be machining large diameter cast driving wheels in O or 1 gauge its certainly something to take into account.

[ettingtonliam]

i've never been too fazed by imperial/metric feed dials, having started on a lathe that didn't have graduated dials of any description. I believe that there was correspondence in ME in the 1950s, possibly led by Edgar Westbury, concerning the ideal amateur's lathe, which suggested that graduated dials were a luxury, but not a necessity.

A bigger issue is to decide if the main requirement will be to screwcut metric or imperial threads, beacuse I don't think the minilathes can be equipped with the necessary 'translation' gears can they ? Its the main reason why my Chester Conquest has a metric leadscrew, because my bigger lathe is imperial, and I wanted the ability to cut metric threads. In practice, in the 6 years I've owned it, I've probably cut 2 threads on it.

Richard

[russell]

As many people have said, there is no problem converting between metric and imperial measurements for turning. I frequently turn to metric dimensions on my imperial lathe without fancy digital readouts (though I have them on the mill). Where you may have the problem is when you want to screw-cut (as opposed to threading with a die) on the lathe. The Mini-Lathes, as supplied, will cut metric pitches only on a metric version and imperial pitches on an imperial version. In small sizes you will almost certainly use a die but for larger projects you will eventually need to screw-cut.
You can, of course, adapt it (near enough) by modifying the change wheel arrangement but it is something else to consider. Most plans for models available in the UK specify imperial threads so I personally would go for an imperial model - but then perhaps that's just my age!

Russell.

[Jo]

Teakfreak,

I looked at the SIEG range of tools on the arceuro stand at the midlands show when I was looking for a micro drill. I was not impressed with the build quality on any of the SIEG tools.

Brought a Proxxon TBM 220 micro drill: Ok so it cost half as much again as the SIEG equivalent but it not only feels right but it also delivers the goods. (Hence my coveting of the Proxxon lathe.)

Jo

[teakfreak]

Jo,

That's a fair point. I was commenting on the suitability of the capacity of the machine for the intended work rather than its build quality, but it is another point to consider. The Proxxon micro mill looks a bit on the small side to me.