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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2011 13:38:42 GMT
Well this was not a planned project but when SWMBO says " if you want it buy it" I guess such opportunities can not be ignored.. This is Delboy's fathers loco ( mentioned in his workshop disposal thread) which is very well built, motion turns freely with no loose items and has run on compressed air although I haven't done so myself yet. Tender is close to finished and included is a professionally built boiler, no certificate available although this may turn up later if found. As I said I hadn't planned on building another loco alongside FS but it makes sense to finish this loco being it's so close to my own project. I can learn a lot from completing this build and also from steaming her when ready which should put me in good stead for the first time that I light a fire in FS's firebox. I will post pictures here during this build and of course will continue with the FS build updates too. BTW took FS's tender down to my new club ( NLSME) on Sunday and pushed her around the tracks smallest radius curve for the first time( think it's 50' but could be wrong) Happy to report that she passed with flying colours (wish I'd taken pictures..lol..) and also to receive some very nice comments from fellow members. So I now have two build threads to do oh and I need to learn about valve timing fast as that's the stage that this loco is at.... Er I think... Pete Attachments:
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Post by Shawki Shlemon on Aug 10, 2011 10:34:38 GMT
Congratulation Pete , you have your project no 2 and counting , you are for sure in the hobby for the long run , like us suckers here before you , there is no way out now . ;D
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2011 14:01:17 GMT
Thanks Shawki, I think your right, I'm well and truly hooked, hook line and sinker as they say. Now I have a request for any Heilan Lassie owners out there, does anyone have the words and music for this loco that they no longer need and willing to sell or perhaps do a copy that can be emailed. I have 4 out of the 11 drawings but there is currently a set for sale on eBay that I'm keeping an eye on. My biggest problem here besides not having the above is the fact that I have no idea how far the builder has got or if he had encountered any problems that needed sorting. An airline with psi gauge was connected to the model when picked up. It looks like the timing was being worked on, plastic covers ( as seen in the photo) have been fitted to the outside cylinders so that the valves can be seen, although the centre cylinder had no bolts on the cover so perhaps he had finished setting the outside cylinders and had then moved onto the inside cylinder, the problem is without words and music and little experience to call on I just don't know?? The good news is the loco runs very smoothly on air in both forward and reverse gear, although the reverser itself is not connected yet. Now one thing I have noticed that you guys may be able to answer, the reverser linkage which looks well made and operates nicely but will not always move from forward to reverse depending on the position of the motion. I haven't been able to switch from forward to reverse yet while connected to air purely because I can't hold onto the airline gun and push the lever at the same time, hopefully I'll be able to grab a helping hand later, anyway the question is, is this normal? Well hope someone can help with either copies of LBSC's words and music, info on my findings or better still any owners of this fine loco who perhaps live near by and would be prepared to run their experienced eye over it.. Regards Pete Attachments:
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pault
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,497
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Post by pault on Aug 10, 2011 20:35:17 GMT
Hi Pete, Looks like you have your hands very full now, it’s not an uncommon problem to find the reverser goes stiff in some wheel positions. I have never tried to find the exact cause but I suspect it is simply lack of mechanical advantage in some wheel positions. If you think about going from forward to reverse on a Walshearts fitted engine when it is on front or back dead centre basically you are just lifting the radius rod, when it is at mid stroke you are moving the valve through its full travel, and the angles of lifting arms may well be less favourable reducing the mechanical advantage. The other thing to remember is that if you have pressure in the steam chest on a slide valve engine the valves will be much more difficult to move. This is because of the pressure forcing the valve onto its valve face, unless you have balanced valves. On a different note I think we have blown out on the photo search, I have heard nothing yet but I will mail them again. Best of luck with the new project Cheers Paul
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2011 21:11:04 GMT
Thanks for the info Paul, I have to say I'm a little lost right now in trying to take in how this thing works. If I'd built it myself then I'd at least have an understanding of the sum of it's parts. Right now I'm just guessing, I have forward and reverse and the only stiffness that I can find when turning the wheels by hand is the compression from the cylinders, does this mean the timing is correct? If not what should I be looking for?? I've temporary used a length of steel to connect the reverser in the cab to the control arm on the frames, now if the wheels are in an unfavourable position that makes the reverser linkage stiff, continued turning of the reverser will flex the steel connecting rod before moving the linkage itself. Of course I don't yet have the drawings for this part so the centres along the steel may be wrong, all I did was measure the distant between them when the reverser was in it's middle position and the control arm was upright, no idea if this is middle or not though, I'm beginning to think not. I need to strip everything down to paint so I'm beginning to think this may be the best way to learn more about the motion and perhaps spot any problems if they exist, naturally I'm on two minds about doing this yet as it is running and may not when put back together if I get something wrong. Another thing is the pressure that the gauge reads before anything moves with air, admittedly the gauge looks very cheap and probably not accurate but it seems to require around 23psi to run. This may be very inaccurate and I'm certainly loosing pressure due to various leaks from the plastic pipework and the fact that there's no compression fitting for the centre cylinder( pipe being held in by insulation tape). Other than all this she sounds great, no nasty sounds of anything not meshing correctly... To say that I've jumped in at the deep end again would be an understatement, nothing new there then..... Pete
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Post by Shawki Shlemon on Aug 11, 2011 9:44:44 GMT
Pete i think Paul has given you reasonable causes , In full size as you know they had balance weights to assist operation , they went from lever operation to screw type giving mechanical advantage and then to power assisted reveres , so what you are experiencing is quite normal , as for the pressure at this stage that seems to me acceptable , after few runs this will change , it will be better .
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2011 10:42:15 GMT
Thanks Shawki, perhaps I'm worrying unnecessary , it's just to me if the reverser comes to a stop but then goes slack if the wheels are turned a little that says to me that something isn't right. But since I have no experience to call on here I'm in the dark hence the silly questions. Anyway I'll stop worrying now and get on, I've ordered trailing axleboxes castings ( one was missing) and the regulator cover from reeves, I'm amazed at how much cheaper these are to FS,s , it was a pleasant surprise. I still need the words if anyone out there can help and would be most grateful if anyone nearby who's familiar with this loco wouldn't mind taking a look and giving an informed opinion of the loco.
Thanks to everyone for the help so far, it's much appreciated.
Pete
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Post by RGR 60130 on Aug 11, 2011 12:13:15 GMT
Pete,
I think I still have the original construction series and a set of plans together with a few other odds and sods for Heilan Lassie. Unfortunately I won't be home for another 4 weeks. If you aren't sorted by then I'll see what I have.
Reg
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2011 12:41:16 GMT
Thanks Reg... Much appreciated..
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Post by drumkilbo on Aug 11, 2011 14:31:13 GMT
Looks very interesting Pete, good luck with it. I'm sure you know this...but....when I stripped a Maisie atlantic [that I hadn't built myself] for painting, I took dozens of photos from all angles and then took dozens more to ensure I could fit everything back the right way and I'm blooming glad I did !
Ian.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2011 14:57:48 GMT
Thanks for the tip Ian,, yes I shall take lots of pictures, also I'll draw the frames out on a board and place the parts within their relative positions. I do the same thing when rebuilding car engines, my classic Porsche engine is at this stage now, except the block. That's due to be collected from the engineers this week once they've finished machining the block and crank, can't wait to get it back... Which reminds me I still have that very large R/C submarine kit taking up valuable workshop space, so come on guys grab a bargain , no reasonable offer refused... Details in the trade section... After all I've got to find space for my engine and new loco somehow... Pete
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Post by ettingtonliam on Aug 11, 2011 16:07:57 GMT
Could be that at certain positions of the wheels, something in the valve gear is catching, possibly die block at the extreme end of the link slot, or a rod catching in a jaw at extreme end of the travel.
Richard
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2011 16:47:02 GMT
Thanks Richard
I have noticed that the connecting rod that links the outside and inside cylinders together within the reverser linkage is undone, perhaps this was one of the last things that was being worked on. I've also discovered that one of the driving wheels locating pins to the axle is loose, the wheel to axle itself is still solid so I may get away with just re-loctiting the pin. I'll have a good look at this when taken apart for painting, probably tomorrow. It's a little annoying since it runs so well on compressed air.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2011 19:08:08 GMT
Well I've just tried adjusting the connecting rod mentioned earlier, I kept turning it in until the reverser stopped jamming, about 5 full turns in all. Now this naturally changes the centre cylinder valve timing, this is all new to me but would I be right in thinking that the loco will still run with the timing out but not as efficient, bit like the electrical timing on a car. Reason I ask is the motion now seems smoother, before it would stop turning at about 23psi, it now keeps turning down to 17psi. Naturally I want to get this loco to run as well as possible which I guess is going to depend on getting the timing spot on, I just wish I knew what exactly that is. Still I have to admit to having a little fun.. Pete
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pault
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,497
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Post by pault on Aug 11, 2011 20:03:25 GMT
Hi Pete If you have some spare time on the Sunday after next and fancy a trip to Chertsey J10 M25 I can run through valve setting with you with plenty of locos to demonstrate the good, bad and indifferent. It’s one of those things that is easier to demonstrate than explain, Regards Paul
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2011 8:47:35 GMT
Hi Paul
Thanks for the kind offer, can I defer until nearer the time please as I'm not sure of my movements . Wife starts her annual leave that weekend so we may be away. If I can make it would it be ok to bring the loco to you for your expert eye to look over. I plan to take her apart today for painting , if I manage to get her back together and running on air again it would be great if you could then check that all is as should be. Something else I've noticed is that the cam from the centre driving wheel that then goes to the bottom of the expansion link seems to just be cam with plain hole which is clamped to the wheel pin via a nut and bolt. On Doncaster this has a square section so that it locates in it's correct position. So although I'll Mark it's position before taking it apart I am a little apprehensive about this, of course it nay be located in position by something I can't see but it certainly doesn't look like it
Pete
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2011 8:49:46 GMT
Picture to show the part I mean.. Attachments:
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Post by drjohn on Aug 12, 2011 8:56:49 GMT
Hi Pete
That's the return crank. Normally once you have set it's position with a jig, you pin it with a taper pin so you can always get it back to the correct position - as Don Ashton has explained, there is only one position for that return crank - the most ctitical setting for the valve gear.
Cheers, and I hope you're not giving up on the FS for this.
DJ.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2011 9:14:00 GMT
Hi DJ Thanks for explaining this, I could see that this was a critical item hence my question. The marks that can be seen are not mine and look as if there are more than one, perhaps the builder had issues here. I'll remark it before taking apart , once I get some drawings I'll check everything over, I'm praying that there isn't an era in one which has then been corrected by adjusting another and then allowing error creep with future parts. Of course everything may be as it should , the fact that she runs on compressed air does give me some hope that all is ok. Regarding FS, I'll be working on her during this project, I bought Heilan Lassie as she is near completion and very close to FS in type. I believe that in getting this loco into steam will teach me a lot for doing the same with FS and hopefully help me avoid any problems encounted and thus achieve an even better running FS... Pete
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pault
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,497
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Post by pault on Aug 12, 2011 11:07:43 GMT
Hi Pete, No problem time wise, just let me know when you can make it. With regard to the return crank fixing it is a very common method of fixing then to the crank pin, particularly on older designs. As DJ said it is a critical part of the valve setting, and it has only one correct position. Because of this it makes sense to set it once all the rods have been fitted for keeps. It is worthwhile putting a pin in especially on a side valve loco to make sure it can’t slip on thecrank pin. Regards Paul
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