westing house pump

[steamingmess]

Afternoon folks,
How easy/difficult would it be to make a westinghouse pump that works in 5 inch gauge? Has anyone made one before?
Dan

[GWRdriver]

Hello Dan,
I have not (so far) built a pump in any scale, however I plan to build one for my 7.5"ga TICH. They key to success, aside from careful work (as usual) is to begin with a proven design and over here the most successful design was developed by William Van Brocklin in the late 1950s or early 1960s. In this design a pin in the vertical pump rod actuated an internal shuttle valve which moved horizontally. The shuttle valve required a number of carefully drilled passages (and some plugging) in the pump head. The basic design was applied to both single and compound pumps in two scales, 3/4" and 1". In the US the great majority of WVB pumps built have been in 1" scale and all the variations were for water pumps rather than air.

Although it was kept relatively small, the steam-end head and valve housing didn't replicate that of a Westinghouse pump but the rest of the pump could be made to look very accurate in detail and a properly made Van Brocklin pump was/is very reliable. There have a been a couple of pump designs for exact scale (or intended to be exact scale) Westinghouse pumps using a scaled down original shuttle valve mechanism (and housing) but so far as I know these are large pumps intended for larger (2.5" scale) locomotives.

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[steamingmess]

Cheers for that. I'm looking to put one on my maid of kent when its done. Going to put an air tank in the tender.
Do you know if there's any plans?
Dan

[spamcanman]

I had one on my 'Maid of Kent' and I used to set it to just tick over it looked the nuts and everybody commented on it plus it kept the boiler level at all times.
I'll post some pictures of the pump and fitted to my Maid.

[flyingfox]

greetings,
If the magic has worked, then the attached photo should show a pump I made in 1986 for my "Buckjumper".
It was made much as already been described, and worked well, but I swear that it used more steam than it pumped water into the boiler.
Adequate lubrication is a must for reliable operation.
regards
Flying Fox

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[albert]

Hello.
Try www.southworthengines.com I used his castings to make his twin pump--it worked spot on.

Albert

[GWRdriver]

Oct 2, 2012 15:12:56 GMT steamingmess said:

Going to put an air tank in the tender. Do you know if there's any plans?

Dan,
There are drawings around, and some are of an "improved" version, let me make a few inquiries. I don't know what modifications will be needed to make this an workable air pump rather than steam.

[jma1009]

hi dan,

L1s (MAID OF KENT) were never fitted with westinghouse pumps. i have 4 locos with working vacuum brakes for the train and steam brakes on the loco and the combined steam/vacuum fitting on the backhead. generally, vacuum brakes are far less trouble and will be correct for prototype with your loco.

the problem in 5"g is how to get what turns out to be a very small shuttle and auxilary valve to work with the crossed passages for the steam pump. then you have the added problem of making a small triple valve for the air brake system. i know of only one person who made one to scale and that was gerry tull of the oxford club with his gold medal winning IW 02 tank loco TOTLAND, but gerry admitted he had to prime the system first with a bycicle pump to get it to work at all.

there are plenty of 5"g 'westinghouse pumps' which pump water rather than air, as flying fox's excellent example shows. both bert brock and don young on the isle of wight built 'westinghouse pumps' that pumped water for their 5"g 02 tank locos (ALVERSTONE and the original FISHBOURNE respectively) though neither was accurate externally being more of a single LBSC type pump. LBSC described quite a few including one in 'Shop Shed and Road'/'The Live Steam Book' and ive got blueprints for it. don's steam pump never worked properly because the steam wasnt hot enough before it reached the pump at the front of the loco, wheareas bert had his steam supply going through the boiler which kept it hot.

if you want to make a proper air pump then it is the only situation where i would use nitrile balls ... on the air pump clacks. but frankly the complications of making the very small shuttle valve and auxilary valve work in this size plus the triple valve make it virtually impossible to make a reliable pump to scale. not even roy amesbury attempted it!

i have schemed out a single acting pump with a spring in it rather like a steam brake cylinder in the course of building my 5"g STEPNEY. STEPNEY lost her westinghouse pump on the mid 1930's, so it wouldnt be correct for me to fit one, but a friend is building a different Terrier where a westinghouse pump was fitted throughout it's life, so i do fancy having a go, just as an experiment, though it will be a water pump for the boiler rather than an air pump (though to scale size).

i can provide quite a bit of info re a vacuum brake set up which i think you will find far superior and reliable as well as being correct to prototype. funnily enough martin evans' STRATFORD design has an excellent fullly working vacuum brake, and many of don youngs' designs do too.

don young also designed a westinghouse pump based on the van brocklin pumps for his 7.25"g terrier NEWPORT. ive got the drawings if you like, but i think you will look at them with horror, especially when trying to reduce them in size to 5"g!! they are complicated enough in 7.25"g!!

cheers,
julian

[jma1009]

hi dan
i should have added that what looks like a westinghouse pump on the R-H side of the L1s is actually the steam operated reverser. the preserved SECR locos on the bluebell railway all have them fitted, even the humble P class 0-6-0T 'BLUEBELL'.
cheers,
julian

[steam4ian]

G'day Dan

A bit of useless information now I am back in Oz. The Westinghouse pumps I am familar with in Oz, and elsewhere have the shuttle across the top of the steam cylinder; the shuttle being driven from the pilot valve actuated by the pin in the piston. At Ravenglas and Eskdale I noticed one of the locos, can't remember the name but it's red, the air pump had the shuttle valve on the side; actuation was by steam piped from the spindle operated pilot valve extending from the top of the cylinder.
The latter arrangement may be easier to reproduce.

BTW, I drove a 9 seater van over Hard Knott Pass to get to Dalgarth. Nobody told me about the road and it was foggy and wet.

Regards
Ian

[Rex Hanman]

It was scary enough in a Mk II Cortina on a hot sunny day!

[jma1009]

now Rex, i thought you were going to tell us all about gordon howell's MAID OF KENT! i remember gordon bringing it to the IWMES for many years. what a character, and sadly missed!
cheers,
julian

[Rex Hanman]

Indeed he was! ;D His models were auctioned last week, for around £20k.