We invented the original Loco, but did we lose it?

[Deleted]

Hi folks
Here I am, sitting in the French sunshine, reading my "Illustrated History of British Steam Railways" and supping some ice cold 1664, and I discover, to my alarm, that we didn't get it all our own way after the word got out! For example, all of the following were adopted widely in the UK after being invented by someone else!:
1. The Steam Injector, invented by French engineer Henri Giffard in 1859
2. Walschearts Valve Gear, invented by a Belgian around 1848
3. Belpaire Firebox (another Belgian!) around 1880
4. Schmidt Superheater (German) early 1900's
5. Internal steam streamlining by Andre Chapelon (French) which inspired Sir Gresley in the early 1930's

Need I go on? This little list seems to illustrate and epitomise the British way of life.....
I'll go back to my 1664!
JB

[springbok]

Well lucky you Oh what is 1664!!
Bob.

[Deleted]

It's beer Bob... and very nice it is too.. well i say beer.. Larger I think.... btw John we're not doing too bad here in the UK.. I believe we still hold over 50% of the worlds patents since they began ... clever chaps us Brits...

Pete

[Deleted]

'ello Shaps------(hic)-----1664 ??-----I shay, itsh verra good--------(hic)----------- here you are then--> www.carlsberggroup.com/brands/pages/kronenbourg1664.aspx#.UemsA41b6D8 ---------------(burp)-------

[drumkilbo]

and we're sitting in Scottish sunshine, a rare commodity but very welcome, thinking of Drummond, McIntosh, Reid, Belhaven,a very nice beer, etc

Slainte

Ian

[pault]

Being a lager lout I understand 1664 however it is a, and this is tough for me to say, a French lager so there’s another thing we have lost

[springbok]

Oh Aaar
We be all zider drinkers down ere.
Bob

[leliev]

Sorry i couldn't react yesterday. Was enjoying the dutch sunset with a nice glass of Schierker Feuerstein, commonly known by the people who have visited the HSB in der Harz. My first sip was in a 99-er going up the Brocken.

[peterdebeus]

and to me home of the best railwaystation in the world at this moment i believe, with every hour ( 8 trains a day), steam powered trains
tearing up the 2.0 % gradient from a standing start, its called steinerne renne and its near wernigerode. I love it

I'm going there atleast 4 times a year, staying in a holiday home only 600 meters from there.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScIb09dW_e0

and an onboard video of this part of the track, i have done that part onboard the locomotive few times to

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6barNuBR004 from 2:20 you see the steinerne renne part

i cant get enough of this stuff

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXnQwtFymUw


ok back on topic hehe

[Midland]

Hi John

The irony is that Stevenson got it right the first time and all that has happpened since is that foreigners have tinkled with various bits and pieces. Mr Crosti's boilers were not to hot and there are others. All that really happened was the development of metallurgy, strenght of materials and better engineering skills made the locos bigger and uglier. There is nothing so graceful as a Johnson single gently wafting along the line and of course we did have to largest class of Compounds in the world before Chapelon although I admire him imensely.

The problem with British loco development was the lack of co-operation between railways and the intercompany jealousy. The French continually shared progress and the Americans did the same to the extent that is you wanted a good loco you went to Baldwins or the like. The GWR thought they were smart with long travel valves and yes they were but when that caught on the rest raced ahead. Poor old GWR stayed put for the next 50 years. They could not share the ideas without an 'up yours' and that is why others thought forward and that is why Mallard did what it did as well as some pretty fantastic hauling during the war. Incidentially at Guildford last weeekend an old driver came up to me and said he used to drive Compounds. He would regularly take 14 on to express timings, great little engines and a 4-4-0. Who needs all those wheels!!!!

So I do not think we lost it, I think we develoiped it in several examples and remember it was Stanier and Gresley who got the testing plant built at Rugby. And of course a Chapelon Compound 4-something something out performed the electrics with huge trains. Politics took over at that point!!

Enjoy your brew

Cheers David

[jma1009]

i think we stayed pretty much ahead of the game till the late 1940s.
until 1946 the railways had very good coal supplies. after that date there was a political/supply problem between industry/railways/ and domestic which had an effect for the next 8-9 years or even till 1963 after the cold winter of 1962/63 on political electioneering if domestic supply wasnt enough. the railways in the UK for the first time in 90 years since the advent of the brick arch in fireboxes (and the use of coke only) struggled with ovoids and rubbish coal.
the 1955 'plan' was in effect a ploy to reduce railway consumption of coal so that domestic consumption wasnt affected and so affect votes. homes without coal in cold winters wasnt a good vote winner! only then did BR take a good look at efficiency of steam, and carry out lots of tests at rugby etc. a narrow firebox loco on best welsh steam coal was quite superb... but feed it with ovoids and slack and domestic crap and things went down hill rapidly. coal production rose after nationalisation but it wasnt enough to ensure the railways got the coal they needed at the expense of other areas of industry and the domestic market especially with the very cold winters of the late 1940s.
it is arguable that because of the superior coal the uk (and especially south wales) produced before the late 1940s supply problems the UK locos had quite an edge over foreign locos despite their greater loading gauge and size. how many services did the A4s operate on? a fraction of the services at a premium cost! it was pretty expensive to travel on the 'premier' expresses! the railways earned their keep till the late 1960s as they had always done on freight!
anyway that's my (somewhat slanted political) view!
cheers,
julian

[steam4ian]

I contend Britain did not keep up with the rest of the world due to the class system which did not value the work of footplate crews.

Compare the British cab with its equivalent in USA, Europe and even New Zealand. When the Ozzie SAR had locos built by Armstrong Whitworth in 1926 the locos raised a lot of interest in the UK because of their "modern" features like: rocking Grates, self cleaning smoke boxes, power reversing. They are still amongst the largest loco built in Britain.

The lack of "modern" features caused the Blue Peter fiasco. Had it had power reversing the driver could have put it in mid gear before it flogged itself to death. As per British practice the crew were blamed, sure the water level was too high, but the regulator wouldn't shut and without power reverse the driver had his arms broken trying to get it to mid gear.

End of colonial's rant.

BTW I am not a Marxist but in the UK would be considered a Conservative.

Regards
Ian

[russell]

Jul 19, 2013 17:31:13 GMT simplyloco said:

I discover, to my alarm, that we didn't get it all our own way after the word got out! For example, all of the following were adopted widely in the UK after being invented by someone else!:
<snip>

This was good business - adopt and improve the best ideas from around the world. This is what the Chinese do now.

Russell
(Sitting by the pool in 34 C sunshine with a glass of cold Cotes de Roussillon )