Don Young vs LBSC Black 5

[Myford Matt]

How do these two designs compare? I know this is a little bit of an apples and pears comparison since Doris is 3 1/2" and DY's is 5", but apart from the scale any views on their relative merits? The serialisation of Doris in ME is a big plus for me - was the other serialised, or are their just drawings to work from?

My guess is that LBSC's design is good, but that a DY one would be more complex, but truer to prototype.

Cheers

MM

[Nexuas]

The DYD was serialised in Locomotives large and small I think it began in issue 44 (August 1990) and probably ran till about issue 60.

It was designed using works plans so is a fairly accurate representation, and if it follows most DYD's wil be an excellent steamer.

3 1/2" standard guage is a bit on the small side if you hope to do any sort of public haulling, the 5" model will probably pull a fair bit!!!

[Laurie_B]

Back in the early 'seventies,I started a 'Doris',which only reached rolling chassis stage.At the time I thought it fairly representative of a Black 5,though the design wasn't all that detailed.In fact,at the time I compared LBSC's drawings with the 4mm scale drawing by F.J.Roche,and the latter drawing contained far more detail at that scale than LBSC had incorporated at 3-1/2" gauge!

About 2 years ago I acquired a second hand set of drawings for the Don Young 5" gauge design.They are a lot more detailed,including cut outs in the main frames,sandboxes,more prototypical cab fittings etc etc.My understanding is that Don Young did make reference to the official Works Drawings of the LM&SR Class 5.
On drawing sheet 1,Don Young writes that :
"This design has been prepared at a scale of 1-1/16 in.=1 foot from L.M.S. shop copies of drawings,courtesy of Norman Lowe......"

There is also a comment on the GA drawing that "Experience with the successful 5in B.R. Class 2 locomotive design has been incorporated in this 5in. gauge Class 5".
I am building a 5" gauge Class 2 loco and I can confirm that that design doesn't actually follow works drawings all that accurately.

But in the past,works drawings weren't that easy to obtain.It was only in the mid seventies (I seem to remember) when Jim Russell and OPC started to make prints available,the situation improved.So designers such as LBSC,Martin Evans and Don Young had to manage with what information was available at the time.

[baggo]

Hi MM,

I've got the drawings for Don's Black Five and a set of wheel castings so it's on my 'to do one day' list. Don designed the loco from works drawings and so it's probably pretty true to prototype. The construction was serialised in LLAS no's 44 to 56. There's a lot of fabrication involved but I believe Model Engineer's Laser can supply a lot of the parts.
Doris is a good loco I think but a compromise between scale outline and LBSC's idea of what is practical, as are most of his designs.

John

[Myford Matt]

How can I get hold of the DY serialisation? Any ideas?

Cheers

Matt

[alanstepney]

LBSC did manage to get some works drawings, most famously on Britannia, the first installment of which appeared in ME the same week that BR showed the prototype.

Notwithstanding that, none of his designs are "super detailed" or even detailed to the level that we have become accustomed to.
However, they do work and following the "words and music" will enable a novice to have a working engine.

Generally, I would agree that the DY one is more complex, but truer to prototype.
You can or course, build Doris but add details of your choice, if 3 1/2" is your prefered gauge.

[baggo]

myfordmatt said:

How can I get hold of the DY serialisation? Any ideas?

I can let you have some scans of the articles if you send me a pm with your email address.

John

[Myford Matt]

Alan - I think LBSC's Pansy is genrally thought to be pretty accurate, though admittedly it is the exception. Even then LBSC does actually say that he leaves the 'detailing' to constructors' personal preference.

I am currently building one and would be grateful to hear about/see pics of detailing that others have added. I took some pics of a 57xx at Buckfastleigh last September and I'm going to Didcot soon to get some more. I think the cab details are where some of the biggest challenges lie.

MM

[Myford Matt]

Many thanks Baggo - have sent an email to baggo@...

Cheers

MM

[baggo]

Station Road Steam sold a beautifully built 3½" gauge Black Five last October. I hope the new owner is going to steam it and not just keep it in a glass case!

www.stationroadsteam.co.uk/stock%20pages/2877/index.htm

John

[Myford Matt]

baggo said:

Station Road Steam sold a beautifully built 3½" gauge Black Five last October. I hope the new owner is going to steam it and not just keep it in a glass case!

Yes I saw it - needs the Chris Vine treatment too, to really do it justice.

Cheers

MM

[alanstepney]

Yes, Pansy is probably the most detailed of LBSC's designs, although Britannia should also be fairly good.

The problem with Pansy is the boiler size. Use cladding and it will be overscale. Omit it and you have to tap the shell to fit handrails. (As used to be commonplace.)
Or, reduce the size when you need to work out tube spacings, plus get the boiler inspectors OK for the changed design.

[Myford Matt]

Sorry Alan, not quite with you - on my drawings all the handrails are attached to the smokebox, panniers or cab platework.

That said I'm glad you cleared up the question of whether or not to clad - I won't - simply to stick to the original plans and keep the boiler testing straightforward.

PS - Just picked up the drawing errors for Pansy on your website - very useful service, many thanks.

Cheers

Matt

[Myford Matt]

Big thanks to baggo for the articles.

;D

Cheers

Matt

[ronhancock]

Hi does any one know where to get updated on Don Young's Boiler as i believe they changed the Bridges on top of the Boiler as some fouled the Regulator.
I am about to have a new boiler made and before submitting the drawing i have from reeves want to make sure i have the updates first.
Ron

[ronhancock]

ALSO ANY COMMENTS ON lynx BOILERS THEY HAVE SENT ME A PRICE THAT'S NOT TO BAD.
I HAVE ALSO HEARD GB BOILERS GOOD ANY ONE TRIED.
DON'T WANT TO WASTE £3000 ON SOME THING THAT'S GOT PROBLEMS HAD ENOUGH WITH THE ONE I WAS BUILDING.
RON

[Deleted]

Hi Ron

I would avoid Lynx...if these are the same people who have gone bust a number of times in recent years I would avoid at all costs, there are many horror stories out there both on this forum and on Facebook...beware....

Pete

[ronhancock]

I am of to see a finished boiler at his place tomorrow same as he is making for me thank you for advice.
My club today suggested taking my Loco and smoke box over to them before they start work on it'
Ron

[ronhancock]

Yes took Loco over and Smoke Box he had just finished a nice black 5 boiler i was impressed.
Took £500 deposit can't wait to get it now but 4 to 5 months waiting list.
At least i now know it will have a good boiler to match the rest of the Loco.
be a long wait waiting now
Ron

[kwil]

Let us see a photo when you get it?