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Post by simplyloco on Jun 3, 2019 12:31:44 GMT
Hi Roger. You pointed us in the direction of Knupfer that you use for tiny metric hex head screws. One thing I forgot to ask, which others might be interested in the answer.... What do you use for spanners? Who makes spanners and sockets these sizes, or do we have to make our own. I am guessing that if these tiny screws are made for the watch trade, they must use proprietary spanners and sockets, but I haven't found anything yet. Any ideas? The Knupfer range goes down to the metric equivalent of slightly smaller than 18BA, with a 1mm A/F head! Bob. Hi Bob. I made my own very easily by screwing a metric allen screw/bolt into a threaded piece of hex bar, which can then also fit into a metric socket. I have one that fits a 1.0mm A/F head...
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Post by 92220 on Jun 3, 2019 18:43:13 GMT
Hi Roger. You pointed us in the direction of Knupfer that you use for tiny metric hex head screws. One thing I forgot to ask, which others might be interested in the answer.... What do you use for spanners? Who makes spanners and sockets these sizes, or do we have to make our own. I am guessing that if these tiny screws are made for the watch trade, they must use proprietary spanners and sockets, but I haven't found anything yet. Any ideas? The Knupfer range goes down to the metric equivalent of slightly smaller than 18BA, with a 1mm A/F head! Bob. Hi Bob. I made my own very easily by screwing a metric allen screw/bolt into a threaded piece of hex bar, which can then also fit into a metric socket. I have one that fits a 1.0mm A/F head... Hi John. Thanks for reminding me of that method. I've used it myself but totally forgot when I looked at the Knapfer sizes. A M2 grubscrew has a 1.0mm A/F hex socket, A M2.5 socket grubscrew has a 1.3mm A/F socket and a M3 socket grubscrew has a 1.5mm A/F socket so with these, all the Knapfer hexes can have socket spanners made for them. Now to get an order together! Bob.
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Post by 92220 on Jun 3, 2019 18:46:51 GMT
Hi Roger. You pointed us in the direction of Knupfer that you use for tiny metric hex head screws. One thing I forgot to ask, which others might be interested in the answer.... What do you use for spanners? Who makes spanners and sockets these sizes, or do we have to make our own. I am guessing that if these tiny screws are made for the watch trade, they must use proprietary spanners and sockets, but I haven't found anything yet. Any ideas? The Knupfer range goes down to the metric equivalent of slightly smaller than 18BA, with a 1mm A/F head! Bob. Hi Bob, Adam has the link to their socket drivers above, but I didn't like the price of them. I've made various drivers out of Silver Steel and open enders out of Gauge Plate. I'll take some pictures of the ones I've made and add them here shortly. For the smaller hex sockets I drill out the corners of the Hex before machining the pocket. I think I managed to finish the profiles on all of them with a 1mm cutter, but the smallest might have used 0.5mm Hi Roger. Thanks for that. Rather than spend time making spanners from scratch, I'm going down the route suggested by John (simplyloco), of using socket grubscrews to provide the right size socket to make a spanner. I've done it before but so long ago, I'd forgotten. I can get hex sockets to match all the Knupfer hexes, from 1mm upwards so problem solved. Bob.
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stevep
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,070
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Post by stevep on Jun 3, 2019 18:56:54 GMT
A number of grub and cap screws are also the right size for BA nuts. I have a whole set of nut runners, with quite long shafts, made from screws silver soldered on to the end of 3/16" dia. steel, with a little 'T' bar at the other end. As you can see, I also make extended allen keys. I also use the electronic colour codes and paint them to identify them - red for 2 BA, yellow for 4 BA, blue for 6 BA, grey for 8 BA etc.
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Post by simplyloco on Jun 3, 2019 19:13:09 GMT
Hi Bob. I made my own very easily by screwing a metric allen screw/bolt into a threaded piece of hex bar, which can then also fit into a metric socket. I have one that fits a 1.0mm A/F head... Hi John. Thanks for reminding me of that method. I've used it myself but totally forgot when I looked at the Knapfer sizes. A M2 grubscrew has a 1.0mm A/F hex socket, A M2.5 socket grubscrew has a 1.3mm A/F socket and a M3 socket grubscrew has a 1.5mm A/F socket so with these, all the Knapfer hexes can have socket spanners made for them. Now to get an order together! Bob. Bob, May I point out that if you use a grubscrew, you will land up with a 'fat' socket. Using cap screws means that the heads can be turned down sufficiently to enable one to get into those tiny little spaces... John BTW, when I was an apprentice I thought for quite a long time that a grub screw was sex in the lunch break! DSC00127 by inkaboat, on Flickr DSC00129 by inkaboat, on Flickr
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Jun 3, 2019 19:52:19 GMT
Hi Roger,
Many thanks for the posts re the longitudinal seams which has been most interesting.
I would be inclined to put the tanks to one side for awhile once finished - you may find blooms of white stuff caused by the remnants of flux that in due course will need neutralizing and washing out for up to 6 months.
Cheers,
Julian
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Post by Roger on Jun 3, 2019 21:17:30 GMT
Hi Roger, Many thanks for the posts re the longitudinal seams which has been most interesting. I would be inclined to put the tanks to one side for awhile once finished - you may find blooms of white stuff caused by the remnants of flux that in due course will need neutralizing and washing out for up to 6 months. Cheers, Julian Hi Julian, Is there something I can use to wash out flux residue, there's bound to be some inside? Maybe I should put some Acetone in there and leave it to soak? I ought to do a few experiments to see what breaks it down. Fortunately, it's only on half of it, the end plates have been cleaned, as has the half way joint on the inner wrapper. I ought to be able to lay it on its back and soak it in something.
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Jun 3, 2019 22:20:49 GMT
Hi Roger,
I don't know a definitive answer, and you have used solders and fluxes that I haven't used, except years ago I used comsol flux with comsul for stay head nuts.
I should imagine a hot solution of caustic soda plus washing up liquid and a bit of agitation might work, but I am no chemist.
For assemblies of leaded cored solder with old fashioned 'fluxite' as a flux, I found a good scrub in very hot soapy water (a strong solution of washing up liquid) to be required with an old tooth brush.
Others with expert knowledge might be able to help you far better!
Cheers,
Julian
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Post by Roger on Jun 4, 2019 5:47:17 GMT
Hi Roger, I don't know a definitive answer, and you have used solders and fluxes that I haven't used, except years ago I used comsol flux with comsul for stay head nuts. I should imagine a hot solution of caustic soda plus washing up liquid and a bit of agitation might work, but I am no chemist. For assemblies of leaded cored solder with old fashioned 'fluxite' as a flux, I found a good scrub in very hot soapy water (a strong solution of washing up liquid) to be required with an old tooth brush. Others with expert knowledge might be able to help you far better! Cheers, Julian Thanks Julian, I think it will take something hot inside it to do any good. Hopefully one of the chemists amongst us will have more suggestions.
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Post by Roger on Jun 4, 2019 6:40:01 GMT
I've just ordered this Silica Gel Insulation from eBay which I didn't think was overly expensive. The plan is to use this on the boiler and backhead and possibly one of more layers between the cladding and the Pannier Tanks as well as the Expanded Polystyrene I bought earlier for that. It will be interesting to see what this stuff is like.
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JohnF
Active Member
Looking for lost Mojo
Posts: 22
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Post by JohnF on Jun 4, 2019 10:50:41 GMT
Hello Roger, In "0" Gauge Most of the kits are brass etched and quite a number of modelers use Cillit Bang ( with orange top ) to clean Brass after soldering with good results.
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Post by 92220 on Jun 4, 2019 12:38:56 GMT
I've just ordered this Silica Gel Insulation from eBay which I didn't think was overly expensive. The plan is to use this on the boiler and backhead and possibly one of more layers between the cladding and the Pannier Tanks as well as the Expanded Polystyrene I bought earlier for that. It will be interesting to see what this stuff is like. Hi Roger. I've just ordered the same stuff. I am guessing the temperature difference - 1200 degrees to 100 degrees is for the 10mm blanket so I am also guessing the 3mm blanket would (proportionally) insulate down to 342 degrees, so with a boiler temp of 166 degrees, at 90 psi, should insulate down to 47 degrees. Not sure if my maths is right though. That is still hot but it shouldn't be hot enough to effect the paint colour, though it would be too hot to touch. Bob.
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Post by Roger on Jun 4, 2019 13:21:36 GMT
Hello Roger, In "0" Gauge Most of the kits are brass etched and quite a number of modelers use Cillit Bang ( with orange top ) to clean Brass after soldering with good results. Hi John, Thanks for that, I'll see if I can get some of that when I'm next at the Supermarket.
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Post by Roger on Jun 4, 2019 13:24:46 GMT
I've just ordered this Silica Gel Insulation from eBay which I didn't think was overly expensive. The plan is to use this on the boiler and backhead and possibly one of more layers between the cladding and the Pannier Tanks as well as the Expanded Polystyrene I bought earlier for that. It will be interesting to see what this stuff is like. Hi Roger. I've just ordered the same stuff. I am guessing the temperature difference - 1200 degrees to 100 degrees is for the 10mm blanket so I am also guessing the 3mm blanket would (proportionally) insulate down to 342 degrees, so with a boiler temp of 166 degrees, at 90 psi, should insulate down to 47 degrees. Not sure if my maths is right though. That is still hot but it shouldn't be hot enough to effect the paint colour, though it would be too hot to touch. Bob. Hi Bob, I'm not sure how that will work when there's a Pannier Tank on the outside instead of free air. It's also not clear if that's going to be a linear function with temperature. I guess some experimentation is going to be required to see just how good it really is for our purposes. It certainly sounds more promising than the insulation we usually have.
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Post by Roger on Jun 4, 2019 15:57:04 GMT
As promised, here are the various box spanners, open enders and nut runners I've made so far. I feel sure there will be many more by the time I've finished. The ones with the 5mm outside hex are particularly useful because they can be used in really tight places without the driver, or with it. There's a magnet bonded into the end of the driver so they don't fall out, and the top also has a magnet to keep the palm rest in place. That gives it the feel of a Watchmaker's Screwdriver. The tiny box spanners with the long ends are for the M1 bolts. I don't intend to use anything smaller than that. 20190604_165047 by Anne Froud, on Flickr
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Post by Roger on Jun 4, 2019 15:58:58 GMT
Out of interest, I found this video about a new class of Aerogel which looks much more practical to use than the original very fragile variety.
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Post by 92220 on Jun 4, 2019 16:00:28 GMT
Hi Roger.
I must admit to being a bit sceptical of their figures but the video certainly seemed to back them up. When my 3mm blanket arrives, I'm going to do some experiments with a large pan of boiling water. I've also got some 3mm ceramic fibre blanket so it will be interesting to see how the two compare.
Bob.
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jem
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,067
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Post by jem on Jun 4, 2019 17:16:05 GMT
I colour code everything that i have in my workshop, it makes it so much easier to grab tools, I have even colour coded my 3jaw chucks, green for no1 jaw, blue for 2 and yellow to 3, this might upset some of the old school, but it does make it much easier to change the jaws.
Anyone got any ideas for making or better modifying to make square sockets for small taps to get into tight places please?
best wishes
Jem
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Post by Roger on Jun 4, 2019 17:24:33 GMT
I colour code everything that i have in my workshop, it makes it so much easier to grab tools, I have even colour coded my 3jaw chucks, green for no1 jaw, blue for 2 and yellow to 3, this might upset some of the old school, but it does make it much easier to change the jaws. Anyone got any ideas for making or better modifying to make square sockets for small taps to get into tight places please? best wishes Jem Hi Jem, That's a really good idea. My chuck jaws have stamped numbers on them though. We used to colour code the hex drivers in the workshop because we had both imperial and metric sizes in use and some look very similar. I think I should colour code the drivers, that would be useful. We used to use Nail Varnish for that... I'll see what's on eBay. Stop press.... Set of 24 bright colours now on order.
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Post by delaplume on Jun 4, 2019 20:07:28 GMT
Hello Roger, In "0" Gauge Most of the kits are brass etched and quite a number of modelers use Cillit Bang ( with orange top ) to clean Brass after soldering with good results. Yes, I can verify that----------If any of you saw my 5" gauge Great Bear boiler at the Manchester show earlier this year ( or photos or video of the same ) I prepared it the night before using a spray application then a wash-off with cold water and dried with some surplus toweling....
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