|
Post by simplyloco on Jun 1, 2019 15:13:18 GMT
A handy tip for removing excess soft solder is to find a set of cheep jewellers screwdrivers and grind them up to a chisel profile. You can then " carefully" pare away the soft solder to the finished level and then clean up with wet and dry or a fibreglass brush. A quick turn of tape of a contrasting colour round the top helps to stop them being mixed up with proper jewellers screwdrivers. Mike My 'solder sucker' is over 40 years old and it still works!😊 John
|
|
JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,909
|
Post by JonL on Jun 1, 2019 15:26:14 GMT
A handy tip for removing excess soft solder is to find a set of cheep jewellers screwdrivers and grind them up to a chisel profile. You can then " carefully" pare away the soft solder to the finished level and then clean up with wet and dry or a fibreglass brush. A quick turn of tape of a contrasting colour round the top helps to stop them being mixed up with proper jewellers screwdrivers. Mike My 'solder sucker' is over 40 years old and it still works!😊 John Mine seems to get blocked in the blink of an eye, and is a pain to disassemble. Buy cheap, buy twice.
|
|
|
Post by Shawki Shlemon on Jun 2, 2019 7:32:20 GMT
I fitted a 1/4 HSS square machining tool in a file handle and works fine for scraping all the excess solder and on long edges a piece of hacksaw blade does the trick .
|
|
|
Post by 92220 on Jun 2, 2019 9:40:05 GMT
Hi Roger.
As Ed says - lovely work! You said you couldn't use mild steel for the rail because it would be in contact with the water. You made the ends of the rail longer, to poke through the tank plate, so why couldn't a couple of top-hat bosses be fitted on the inside of the tank, and then the rail soldered into these. That way you have a strong mild steel rail but a brass/bronze bush between it and the water, or am I missing something that prevents this.
Bob.
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Jun 2, 2019 10:22:11 GMT
Hi Roger. As Ed says - lovely work! You said you couldn't use mild steel for the rail because it would be in contact with the water. You made the ends of the rail longer, to poke through the tank plate, so why couldn't a couple of top-hat bosses be fitted on the inside of the tank, and then the rail soldered into these. That way you have a strong mild steel rail but a brass/bronze bush between it and the water, or am I missing something that prevents this. Bob. Hi Bob, I guess you could use Silver Steel and blind bushes like you say, but they would be in the way of the Brass angles inside. It's certainly possible though, you'd probably have to rivet them over and Soft Solder them in. I don't think Mild Steel is a good choice though, that's still pretty easy to bend over a long length, that's why I've used Silver Steel on the Bunker ones. In the end it only took about an hour and a half to make the handles from Phosphor Bronze rod. That's probably less time than to make blind bushes. It was wasteful though since I only had 5mm rod, but you can buy 3mm rod instead. It's not easy to machine it accurately without a grinder though. I think you would have to slide it out of a collet a couple of millimetres at a time and turn it to the final size in one cut to get it parallel and than finish it with wet & dry to smooth over the marks where you moved it.
|
|
timb
Statesman
Posts: 512
|
Post by timb on Jun 2, 2019 10:28:35 GMT
I like the former Roger, makes those bends almost effortless. Was that a cnc made part?
Tim
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Jun 2, 2019 11:59:47 GMT
I like the former Roger, makes those bends almost effortless. Was that a cnc made part? Tim Hi Tim, Yes, the former is a CNC made part. The model was drawn in such a way that the length of the long part could be changed so it could be used to machine different sized formers. There's a slight angle on the ends so that they're less than 90 degrees to allow for a little spring back when you use them. The recess is 1.8mm deep so the 2mm rod and be trapped in the vice and you can form the ends without the flange getting in the way.
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Jun 2, 2019 12:16:04 GMT
This is the setup for Soft Soldering the steps. I'm using 60/40 Cored Electrical solder which is 0.7mm diameter. I've formed each shape round the joint making sure each one goes around three sides so they won't fall off. The joints are also fluxed with the waxy plumbers flux using a small paint brush. 20190602_101721 by Anne Froud, on Flickr The fire bricks are to stop it falling over. The bottom is resting on Titanium Welding rods. The large blow torch was played all over the bottom section and up almost to the top all round to bring it up to a reasonable temperature. There's a lot of mass there, and the heat is going to want to get sucked away if I don't get it all hot. I'm also aware that the steps and handles are going to want to get hot way before anything else if I play the flame on the top. Once the whole thing was nearly hot enough and I could see the flux bubbling on the top, I then switched to heating the top and it all melted in a matter of seconds. I didn't touch anything, it was just heated and left to cool. 20190602_102015 by Anne Froud, on Flickr 20190602_102542 by Anne Froud, on Flickr 20190602_102705 by Anne Froud, on Flickr The same method was used on the top parts, starting away from the end I'd just Soldered and applying the torch pointing to the left and from the top when the LH handle was being done. I didn't want to melt any of the things on the end of the tank. 20190602_103025 by Anne Froud, on Flickr 20190602_103029 by Anne Froud, on Flickr The only joints that weren't quite right are on the front handle, I didn't quite melt those enough to form a fillet. 20190602_115059 by Anne Froud, on Flickr That's better. 20190602_115732 by Anne Froud, on Flickr The through tube has a very slight ridge on 1501, but I'm making it flush. 20190602_125211 by Anne Froud, on Flickr I haven't removed any Solder in these photos, it's just been cleaned with tissue and Acetone and lightly touched up with wet & dry 20190602_125218 by Anne Froud, on Flickr 20190602_125226 by Anne Froud, on Flickr So far so good, that was surprisingly easy to do, and it saved a hell of a lot of cleaning up. It's a straight choice between spending time up front or spending it afterwards cleaning up where the unwanted Solder has ended up. I think this is a more controlled way to get exactly the right amount of Solder on each joint. It's supposed to simulate a weld fillet.
|
|
timb
Statesman
Posts: 512
|
Post by timb on Jun 2, 2019 12:23:52 GMT
Looks fantastis, well done Roger!
Tim
|
|
|
Post by simplyloco on Jun 2, 2019 17:14:45 GMT
When I was learning (very) basic plumbing, we used to wipe the joints with a special cloth, leaving a very clean finish. Taking that on board, when I do small solder jobs I use a small round nosed WET artists brush - not nylon!- which clears the excess solder and leaves a perfect tiny fillet. Works for me . John
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Jun 2, 2019 18:20:28 GMT
When I was learning (very) basic plumbing, we used to wipe the joints with a special cloth, leaving a very clean finish. Taking that on board, when I do small solder jobs I use a small round nosed WET artists brush - not nylon!- which clears the excess solder and leaves a perfect tiny fillet. Works for me . John Hi John, I do sometimes use a brush dipped in flux to spread the Solder and clean a joint, particularly if it's a complex shape and the solder doesn't want to go where I need it. The rivet heads have all been done like that with the high temperature Solder. All these ideas work really well in my experience, this is the first time I've precisely placed Solder though and avoided any following cleanup.
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Jun 2, 2019 18:40:42 GMT
This is a 3D printed blanking plug to fit in place of the balance pipe so I can test the Pannier tanks for leaks. 20190602_192404 by Anne Froud, on Flickr I'm pleased to be able to report that it's completely sealed, so that's one hurdle out of the way. On to the next one! 20190602_192447 by Anne Froud, on Flickr
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Jun 2, 2019 21:55:09 GMT
These are the two bushes for the injector water valves. I've marked the position where they go tight on the valve when screwed fully home and lightly peened over the Brass rings to hold them in place. The rings are intended to give more surface area in contact with the Phosphor Bronze bushes for the Solder to adhere to. As usual, the threads and other areas are protected with Tippex. 20190602_212316 by Anne Froud, on Flickr I decided to use high temperature Soft Solder on these. The bushes are only ever going to be finger tight because the seal is formed by the radial compression of the 'O' ring. 20190602_214157 by Anne Froud, on Flickr You can't see it from this photo, but it would appear that the Solder has penetrated right through. I put some grooves into the faces of the spacers and notches in the holes to give the Solder a way through and something for it to key on to. 20190602_221003 by Anne Froud, on Flickr 20190602_221648 by Anne Froud, on Flickr
|
|
jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
|
Post by jma1009 on Jun 2, 2019 23:01:22 GMT
Hi Roger,
I seem to have missed something here! The right hand tank now looks complete and finished, but I don't recall any description of soldering up the main longitudinal seams. The left hand tank is still in bits?
Perhaps you could provide a resume?
The right hand pannier tank looks quite superb.
Cheers,
Julian
|
|
|
Post by David on Jun 3, 2019 2:58:20 GMT
Amazing work, as always!
|
|
|
Post by 92220 on Jun 3, 2019 7:30:21 GMT
Hi Roger. As Ed says - lovely work! You said you couldn't use mild steel for the rail because it would be in contact with the water. You made the ends of the rail longer, to poke through the tank plate, so why couldn't a couple of top-hat bosses be fitted on the inside of the tank, and then the rail soldered into these. That way you have a strong mild steel rail but a brass/bronze bush between it and the water, or am I missing something that prevents this. Bob. Hi Bob, I guess you could use Silver Steel and blind bushes like you say, but they would be in the way of the Brass angles inside. It's certainly possible though, you'd probably have to rivet them over and Soft Solder them in. I don't think Mild Steel is a good choice though, that's still pretty easy to bend over a long length, that's why I've used Silver Steel on the Bunker ones. In the end it only took about an hour and a half to make the handles from Phosphor Bronze rod. That's probably less time than to make blind bushes. It was wasteful though since I only had 5mm rod, but you can buy 3mm rod instead. It's not easy to machine it accurately without a grinder though. I think you would have to slide it out of a collet a couple of millimetres at a time and turn it to the final size in one cut to get it parallel and than finish it with wet & dry to smooth over the marks where you moved it. Hi Roger. I thought there must be a reason why you didn't do it that way but I didn't realise how close it was to the corner angle. That does make it a real fiddle to do it my suggested way. This illustrates what I have said before....we learn a lot from your posts whether we are making a Speedy or not! Bob.
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Jun 3, 2019 8:14:40 GMT
Hi Roger, I seem to have missed something here! The right hand tank now looks complete and finished, but I don't recall any description of soldering up the main longitudinal seams. The left hand tank is still in bits? Perhaps you could provide a resume? The right hand pannier tank looks quite superb. Cheers, Julian Hi Julian, I'm glad you like it. The inner and outer wrappers were made in two sub-assemblies like this.... 20190529_210217 by Anne Froud, on Flickr ... which were then riveted together to look like this.... 20190530_160254 by Anne Froud, on Flickr .... and soldered on its back to get this. The whole thing was gently warmed up with the flame all over it for about five minutes so it was all near the melting point of the 60/40 Solder. 20190530_163304 by Anne Froud, on Flickr The back sub-assembly was soldered with 60/40 cored electrical Solder to help penetrate the joints. The ends on the main wrapper were done with the high temperature Solder. The two were joined with 60/40 cored electrical Solder. I laid a few lengths of Solder on the joints in a few places to start a pool that I could add more Solder to. The joints need to be a very close fit to be able to get away with this because the Solder isn't that viscous. Having so many rivets close together helps a lot. All of the surfaces were prepared with coarse wet & dry, degreased with Lab Grade Acetone before riveting. I also used a waxy Plumber's flux on all of the joints to protect them from oxidising while being heated. Cored Solder is great, but the flux isn't released until the Solder melts, and that leaves the joints exposed up to that point. The LH tanks will probably be done slightly differently because I need to Solder the baffle plate in that one where the internal filters are. In that case the front section will probably get completed first, followed by adding the inner wrapper to the back. I'm waiting on the delivery of the 6mm Brass plate and then I can complete the back of the tank. Hopefully that fills in the gaps in my previous explanation.
|
|
|
Post by 92220 on Jun 3, 2019 11:32:05 GMT
Hi Roger.
You pointed us in the direction of Knupfer that you use for tiny metric hex head screws. One thing I forgot to ask, which others might be interested in the answer.... What do you use for spanners? Who makes spanners and sockets these sizes, or do we have to make our own. I am guessing that if these tiny screws are made for the watch trade, they must use proprietary spanners and sockets, but I haven't found anything yet. Any ideas? The Knupfer range goes down to the metric equivalent of slightly smaller than 18BA, with a 1mm A/F head!
Bob.
|
|
|
Post by Cro on Jun 3, 2019 11:40:27 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Jun 3, 2019 11:48:36 GMT
Hi Roger. You pointed us in the direction of Knupfer that you use for tiny metric hex head screws. One thing I forgot to ask, which others might be interested in the answer.... What do you use for spanners? Who makes spanners and sockets these sizes, or do we have to make our own. I am guessing that if these tiny screws are made for the watch trade, they must use proprietary spanners and sockets, but I haven't found anything yet. Any ideas? The Knupfer range goes down to the metric equivalent of slightly smaller than 18BA, with a 1mm A/F head! Bob. Hi Bob, Adam has the link to their socket drivers above, but I didn't like the price of them. I've made various drivers out of Silver Steel and open enders out of Gauge Plate. I'll take some pictures of the ones I've made and add them here shortly. For the smaller hex sockets I drill out the corners of the Hex before machining the pocket. I think I managed to finish the profiles on all of them with a 1mm cutter, but the smallest might have used 0.5mm
|
|