|
Post by Roger on Feb 2, 2020 19:13:15 GMT
I've been modelling more of this rear bulkhead, which means I'm noticing things that I hadn't seen before. Here's a rivet counter's paradise... check out the number of rivets either side of the central doors where the stiffening angles are riveted in two vertical lines. Bunker outside20 by The train Man, on Flickr The reason for the disparity is because the stiffening angle in the middle of this picture can't go right down to the shelf because the handbrake clearance segment is in the way. They've tapered the angle off gently there, presumably to protect the hands when ising the brake. Whether it left Swindon with different spacing is a matter of conjecture, but this is how it is now, so that's what I'll model. I hadn't notice the eye on the right that the handbrake chain is attached to... Bunker front5 by The train Man, on Flickr ... and sod's law, I can't see how they've terminated the angle at the bottom here, because the brush is in the way! I can see enough of it to guess that it's probably just cut off square, but it would be nice to know for sure. Bunker front by The train Man, on Flickr So this is how it is so far, including the odd spacing of the rivets on the stiffening angles. I also noticed the little hook that holds up the sliding coal door, so that's modelled too now. I haven't shown the sanding gear lever at this point, but that's going on too. It's a dummy, the shelf might not be there all the time, so I can't use it for anything. I haven't completely decided how it's all going to be retained, but it doesn't have to be particularly secure since it's only going to be fitted for storage or show. The large curved top angle will be attached to the back as shown, that will probably be the same width as the gap in the back, and the side angles will probably be attached to the sides to strengthen the parts that stay with the locomotive. That might change though when I do some trial assemblies and I can better judge what will work best. Bunker removable details by The train Man, on Flickr
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Feb 2, 2020 19:17:28 GMT
Hi Roger, one solution is to model the brush as well and keep us all guessing!
Cheers Don
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Feb 2, 2020 20:33:12 GMT
Hi Roger, one solution is to model the brush as well and keep us all guessing! Cheers Don Brilliant lateral thinking Don, what a cunning idea!
|
|
|
Post by 92220 on Feb 3, 2020 15:10:47 GMT
I've been modelling more of this rear bulkhead, which means I'm noticing things that I hadn't seen before. Here's a rivet counter's paradise... check out the number of rivets either side of the central doors where the stiffening angles are riveted in two vertical lines. Bunker outside20 by The train Man, on Flickr The reason for the disparity is because the stiffening angle in the middle of this picture can't go right down to the shelf because the handbrake clearance segment is in the way. They've tapered the angle off gently there, presumably to protect the hands when ising the brake. Whether it left Swindon with different spacing is a matter of conjecture, but this is how it is now, so that's what I'll model. I hadn't notice the eye on the right that the handbrake chain is attached to... Bunker front5 by The train Man, on Flickr ... and sod's law, I can't see how they've terminated the angle at the bottom here, because the brush is in the way! I can see enough of it to guess that it's probably just cut off square, but it would be nice to know for sure. Bunker front by The train Man, on Flickr So this is how it is so far, including the odd spacing of the rivets on the stiffening angles. I also noticed the little hook that holds up the sliding coal door, so that's modelled too now. I haven't shown the sanding gear lever at this point, but that's going on too. It's a dummy, the shelf might not be there all the time, so I can't use it for anything. I haven't completely decided how it's all going to be retained, but it doesn't have to be particularly secure since it's only going to be fitted for storage or show. The large curved top angle will be attached to the back as shown, that will probably be the same width as the gap in the back, and the side angles will probably be attached to the sides to strengthen the parts that stay with the locomotive. That might change though when I do some trial assemblies and I can better judge what will work best. Bunker removable details by The train Man, on Flickr Hi Roger. I enlarged your photo in the area of the brush. It is JUST possible to determine that the vertical T-piece appears to be tapered off from the outer edge to where it meets the top edge of vertical leg of the horizontal angle. The taper appears to be approx 45 degrees which you would expect it to be. The reason I came to this conclusion is that in the enlarged photo, just below the vertical T-piece, where the bristles of the brush end, there appears to be a round vague blob that looks to be in the right place for it to represent another horizontal rivet, with the angled edge of the cut off T-piece, just corresponding with the ends of the brush bristles. Bob.
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Feb 3, 2020 16:25:44 GMT
I've been modelling more of this rear bulkhead, which means I'm noticing things that I hadn't seen before. Here's a rivet counter's paradise... check out the number of rivets either side of the central doors where the stiffening angles are riveted in two vertical lines. Bunker outside20 by The train Man, on Flickr The reason for the disparity is because the stiffening angle in the middle of this picture can't go right down to the shelf because the handbrake clearance segment is in the way. They've tapered the angle off gently there, presumably to protect the hands when ising the brake. Whether it left Swindon with different spacing is a matter of conjecture, but this is how it is now, so that's what I'll model. I hadn't notice the eye on the right that the handbrake chain is attached to... Bunker front5 by The train Man, on Flickr ... and sod's law, I can't see how they've terminated the angle at the bottom here, because the brush is in the way! I can see enough of it to guess that it's probably just cut off square, but it would be nice to know for sure. Bunker front by The train Man, on Flickr So this is how it is so far, including the odd spacing of the rivets on the stiffening angles. I also noticed the little hook that holds up the sliding coal door, so that's modelled too now. I haven't shown the sanding gear lever at this point, but that's going on too. It's a dummy, the shelf might not be there all the time, so I can't use it for anything. I haven't completely decided how it's all going to be retained, but it doesn't have to be particularly secure since it's only going to be fitted for storage or show. The large curved top angle will be attached to the back as shown, that will probably be the same width as the gap in the back, and the side angles will probably be attached to the sides to strengthen the parts that stay with the locomotive. That might change though when I do some trial assemblies and I can better judge what will work best. Bunker removable details by The train Man, on Flickr Hi Roger. I enlarged your photo in the area of the brush. It is JUST possible to determine that the vertical T-piece appears to be tapered off from the outer edge to where it meets the top edge of vertical leg of the horizontal angle. The taper appears to be approx 45 degrees which you would expect it to be. The reason I came to this conclusion is that in the enlarged photo, just below the vertical T-piece, where the bristles of the brush end, there appears to be a round vague blob that looks to be in the right place for it to represent another horizontal rivet, with the angled edge of the cut off T-piece, just corresponding with the ends of the brush bristles. Bob. Hi Bob, Thanks for that, it certainly makes sense for that to be the case. I'll add a chamfer to that edge. The tops look to be just square.
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Feb 3, 2020 22:55:11 GMT
A few odds and ends and some new parts today... I don't know how I managed without this Vice on a stick, it's so handy for holdin these awkward jobs. 20200202_201952 by The train Man, on Flickr This time I need to file away the flange on the inside of the base because it was fouling the Reach Rod... 20200202_201959 by The train Man, on Flickr ... but now it isn't. 20200202_202943 by The train Man, on Flickr These are the angles that attach the rear cab bulkhead to the roof and sides. they're being made from the plate I bought for the Cab base, but turned out to be too thin. I didn't have enough tabs on the RH curved angle, so that pulled out when finishing, so that was scrap. 20200203_100147 by The train Man, on Flickr These are the top and bottom pieces for the hand brake recess... 20200203_114620 by The train Man, on Flickr ... and this will be the curved back and end flanges. 20200203_170601 by The train Man, on Flickr And finally, this is the removable shelf getting ready for the first few rivet holes to line it all up. 20200203_204747 by The train Man, on Flickr 20200203_204802 by The train Man, on Flickr
|
|
|
Post by mugbuilder on Feb 4, 2020 0:12:47 GMT
Amazing work Roger. You certainly get good value from your CNC machinery.
|
|
|
Post by delaplume on Feb 4, 2020 0:28:07 GMT
milling on a stick------ vice on a stick
A usual Roger Darwinian progression I would have thought !!
What's not to like. ??
|
|
Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
|
Post by Gary L on Feb 4, 2020 0:45:32 GMT
Hi Roger. I enlarged your photo in the area of the brush. It is JUST possible to determine that the vertical T-piece appears to be tapered off from the outer edge to where it meets the top edge of vertical leg of the horizontal angle. The taper appears to be approx 45 degrees which you would expect it to be. The reason I came to this conclusion is that in the enlarged photo, just below the vertical T-piece, where the bristles of the brush end, there appears to be a round vague blob that looks to be in the right place for it to represent another horizontal rivet, with the angled edge of the cut off T-piece, just corresponding with the ends of the brush bristles. Bob. Hi Bob, Thanks for that, it certainly makes sense for that to be the case. I'll add a chamfer to that edge. The tops look to be just square. I'm not so sure. I've PM'ed a photo -I think it is one of yours Roger, which you might have missed. It isn't crystal-clear, but at least the brush has been moved! I don't see a chamfer there myself, just the angle cut off square where it meets the horizontal angle. (ICBW). But if you want a chamfer for tidiness, nobody will tell you otherwise! As I may have said before, Swindon's precision engineering had no equal, but their blacksmithing could be very 'agricultural.' -Gary
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Feb 4, 2020 8:51:43 GMT
Hi Bob, Thanks for that, it certainly makes sense for that to be the case. I'll add a chamfer to that edge. The tops look to be just square. I'm not so sure. I've PM'ed a photo -I think it is one of yours Roger, which you might have missed. It isn't crystal-clear, but at least the brush has been moved! I don't see a chamfer there myself, just the angle cut off square where it meets the horizontal angle. (ICBW). But if you want a chamfer for tidiness, nobody will tell you otherwise! As I may have said before, Swindon's precision engineering had no equal, but their blacksmithing could be very 'agricultural.' -Gary Hi Gary, Thanks for that. I've put the mentioned photo below, and it does look like you're right, unless of course it's got a really long chamfer similar to the other side. I somehow doubt that though. 20140204_113503 by Roger Froud, on Flickr
|
|
|
Post by 92220 on Feb 4, 2020 11:40:56 GMT
Hi Roger.
I've just done the same with Gary's photo. He is right. I was wrong. The end of the angle is definitely square rather than angled as it appeared in the other photo. There is just enough perspective to see the squared end when Gary's photo is enlarged. Perhaps the brush is a later fixture to prevent damage to the crew's hands, under Health and Safety rules!!
Bob.
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Feb 4, 2020 20:16:08 GMT
Here's a reminder of what the back of the Cab looks like... Bunker outside20 by The train Man, on Flickr ... this is going to be the door surround. It's actually in eight pieces on 1501, but that's going to be painful to do, so I'm going to make it in one piece. Here I'm machining 0.5mm slots, 0.3mm deep where the separate parts meet so it will show in the paint. 20200203_211140 by The train Man, on Flickr I'm using 0.5mm rivets to hold this in place. 20200203_225602 by The train Man, on Flickr The 2mm slot drill wasn't the sharpest, so that's left some big burrs to clean up. I don't throw them away until I've had my money's worth. 20200204_101509 by The train Man, on Flickr 20200204_171050 by The train Man, on Flickr 20200204_194714 by The train Man, on Flickr The window bars are six different lengths which is a bit of a pain, so I've created them with the length between hole centres being a parameter that I can input for each one. That way I can use the same model for each one. I also created this Sheet Metal square version in the same manner, borrowed from when I bent the hand rails and modified to suit this part. All I had to do was to open the Equation Editor and type in the new centre distance, then the model adjusts to suit. Window bar length calculator by The train Man, on Flickr The reason for using a sheet metal part for this is that I can unfold it and then measure the unfolded length, like this. You can see the different place the Blue 'Dog Bone' is on the LH navigation plane to see that the Unfold operation is below the 'Dog Bone' in one and above in the other. That's all there is to it. The length of the piece includes the location stubs on the ends which will be reduced to fit reduced size holes in the Cab. That way there will be a positive depth stop and something to slightly rivet over on the inside. Window bar length unfolded by The train Man, on Flickr Here you can see that I've done the same with the bending formers for each of them. The Equation Editor contains the dimension called 'CentreDistance' and you can see that other dimensions are using that to create the required sizes for the model. Since the model contiains the machining operations, all I had to do for each one was to change CentreDistance and then reset the origin to the top RH corner which is what I'm using for the reference on the vice. The output is just one g-code file to clean up the ends and create the forming profile. Former parametric model by The train Man, on Flickr It only took about an hour to make all six formers. 20200204_114817 by The train Man, on Flickr 20200204_134956 by The train Man, on Flickr They don't have to be pretty. I just turned them over and put two on each piece of stock. 20200204_154738 by The train Man, on Flickr I don't have enough 1/16" Silver Steel for these, so I've ordered plenty on eBay.
|
|
|
Post by andyhigham on Feb 4, 2020 21:50:37 GMT
Will you make the bent window bars?
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Feb 4, 2020 22:01:58 GMT
Will you make the bent window bars? I suspect you mean will I reproduce the abused state as shown in the photo, so no. I'm going to be less authentic on this point. They need to be accurately formed else they won't match the holes in the Cab back wall. I'm turning the ends of 1/16" Silver Steel down to 1.4mm for the register so they look like this... Window bar by The train Man, on Flickr This is the same way I did the hand rails.
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
|
Post by don9f on Feb 5, 2020 16:35:01 GMT
Hi Roger, great to see this attention to detail.....
”Jinty” should have very similar bars on its rear cab windows, but I baulked at the idea of making and mounting them, so for now they’ll be left off! If you have any rejects, you could always send them this way 😉
Cheers Don
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Feb 5, 2020 19:38:20 GMT
Hi Roger, great to see this attention to detail..... ”Jinty” should have very similar bars on its rear cab windows, but I baulked at the idea of making and mounting them, so for now they’ll be left off! If you have any rejects, you could always send them this way 😉 Cheers Don I'll bring the formers with me to Doncaster if you like, then you can make whatever sizes you need.
|
|
|
Post by delaplume on Feb 6, 2020 1:50:49 GMT
Hi Roger and Co...
To be fair to those window bars}....... Coaling-up is never a "genteel" process at the best of times, especially if mechanised methods are used, and the fact that some bars are bent shows they have served their purpose ie stopped the windows from being smashed.....
I don't suppose that in normal daily use the MPD that the loco was shedded at would have alloted any time to bending them back straight again ( unlesss the crew wanted to do it themselves ) but would leave it for Swindon Works etc to do when the loco was in for it's next Major exam / overhaul...
|
|
dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,438
|
Post by dscott on Feb 6, 2020 2:03:11 GMT
So if we all turn up with our various bending formers to Doncaster... We can all go on a Bender!!! Too good for the joke section.
Lovely progress Roger. David and Lily.
|
|
|
Post by delaplume on Feb 6, 2020 2:16:29 GMT
Geeeee----------Zussssssss !!.. !!........actually that's not bad for 2 in the morning I suppose ??
Seriously David old mate -------- you need to get out more often ---(Smiley face)
Sorry Roger...back to 1501 then..
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Feb 6, 2020 22:57:43 GMT
Next up is putting the curved pocket together that provides a clearance for the brake handle. Bunker front5 by The train Man, on Flickr This is an Aluminium bar end being turned into a former to get the back shape right. I've had to use my 2-flute indexable cutter for this, it's the only thing that will reach through the 40mm thickness. Here's a wobbly video of it taking just a 1mm cut so you can hear why I dislike using this cutter. I tried it with every combination of feed and speed but it just makes a different kind of horrible loud noise whatever you do. In a more rigid machine you can tear through this sort of job. It's still noisy, but in an enclosure and a factory environment nobody minds. This is the finishing cut... it's still noisy even taking 0.2mm at 1mm depth. Such is life, there's no choice with this job. 20200205_204155 by The train Man, on Flickr 20200206_194926 by The train Man, on Flickr It was easy enough to push it into shape... 20200206_200844 by The train Man, on Flickr 20200206_200852 by The train Man, on Flickr ... and then knock the flanges flat. 20200206_201907 by The train Man, on Flickr 20200206_202422 by The train Man, on Flickr 20200206_202602 by The train Man, on Flickr The top and bottom had an additional 0.5mm so I could dress the edge and leave a little material for melting into a tack with the TIG welder. This is mighty fiddly to do without lbowing a hole in it. The material is only 0.6mm and it took only 15Amps to do. It doesn't have to be strong or pretty, it's only to hold it so I can Silver Solder the whole thing. 20200206_205813 by The train Man, on Flickr 20200206_210953 by The train Man, on Flickr 20200206_211503 by The train Man, on Flickr 20200206_212835 by The train Man, on Flickr 20200206_213406 by The train Man, on Flickr 20200206_213716 by The train Man, on Flickr 20200206_214401 by The train Man, on Flickr 20200206_214416 by The train Man, on Flickr 20200206_215806 by The train Man, on Flickr 20200206_215813 by The train Man, on Flickr I'm only Silver Soldering one side at a time, laying 0.5mm wire into the joint and folding some pieces where the flange has a gap in it. 20200206_222532 by The train Man, on Flickr So far so good. I'll clean it up and do the other side before touching up any parts that might not have taken. 20200206_222906 by The train Man, on Flickr
|
|