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Post by shedman on Apr 5, 2014 17:39:45 GMT
Hi Folks
I am a newbie to the forum and relatively new to the world of model engineering. I have built a ME beam engine and am now embarking on a 5" Sterling Single using the Reeves castings and drawings. but as this is my first train (sorry loco!) I was wondering if anyone has any experience of building one and whether they could offer any advice.
I have embarked on producing the drawings in 3D and this is proving useful in identifying drawing errors and I am compiling a list of the errors as I go along.
Graham
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Post by noggin on Apr 5, 2014 18:02:17 GMT
Train, Train, You will get all the railway fans moaning,Its a locomotive,( Welcome) Garry
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pault
Elder Statesman
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Post by pault on Apr 5, 2014 18:25:12 GMT
I can't help you with the Sterling, but welcome to the Forum
Regards
Paul
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2014 18:52:03 GMT
Hi Graham
Welcome to the forum, there are some fine Sterling builders on this forum so I'm sure you will get some good helpful advice soon enough.
Regards
Pete
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Alan
Part of the e-furniture
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Post by Alan on Apr 5, 2014 19:00:56 GMT
The cylinders look simple to make, but they are subtly handed and are really expensive to replace. look forward to seeing what errors you find as you 3d it
Alan
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Post by qreidford on Apr 5, 2014 20:18:26 GMT
Hi Graham,
I am quite a bit along the road of building my Stirling - also to Reeves drawings and various castings! As you must have heard and no doubt found out by now - there are many errors and omissions on the drawings, some a silly and easily spotted/ rectified and just a little annoying e.g. the thread size of the safety valve is one dimension on the bust drawing and another on the drawing of the valve itself.
My main issues have vitally all been centred on the boiler:
The eccentric for the axle pump fouls the underside of the boiler (by about 1/4") so far I don't think I have solved this to my satisfaction.
there is very little room between the firebox and the frames which means that there is a pinch point, to put it mildly, where the reach rod passes between the boiler (at the junction of the barrel and the firebox) - as far as I have gone remedies include reducing the thickness of the inside top of frames and machining the thickness of reach rod down to around 1/16" locally at this point.
I had to remove the top of the rear axle horn blocks to allow the boiler to drop in place
As the drawings do not show any major interference issues - you will find that the drawn steam brake cylinder is really too large to fit between the firebox and the drag beam - once it does you then have the considerable difficulty in running the water pipes - another interesting exercise in fitting past the lower firebox/ ash pan - I made another of a smaller dimension.
This is my first locomotive and I was warned that it may not be the best beginner's model - however I guess, like you, I really like the design and despite the frustrations it is coming together.
If I can help then please email me, I'll be very interested in hearing of your progress
Cheers
Q
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
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Post by jma1009 on Apr 5, 2014 22:17:30 GMT
a 5"g Stirling Single won IMLEC one year, so it is not impossible to produce an extremely good working miniature from the plans!
cheers,
julian
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2014 23:15:24 GMT
The eccentric for the axle pump fouls the underside of the boiler (by about 1/4") so far I don't think I have solved this to my satisfaction. A chap at our club built the Stirling Single many years ago and found the same problem with the axle pump eccentric. He mentioned it next time he visited Reeves. Whoever he spoke to said " Oh yes, we know about that. Just put a dent in the boiler barrel so that it clears!" or words to that effect. I think that our club member solved the problem by moving the whole axle pump assembly to one side. He wasn't too keen on taking a hammer to his nice new boiler! John |
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Post by Shawki Shlemon on Apr 6, 2014 8:17:40 GMT
A few years ( long time ) ago I built two of them , mine are not highly detailed and has been sold since , my advice is read through all the sheets before doing any work , compare fittings to their respective parts and decide what to do and mark the sheets , there are options for the bogie , the clearances are very tight , different numbers had different design of wheels covers . The engine is lively and reasonable powerful but traction is not that good due to light weight .They are beautiful engines . you can see mine here members.dodo.com.au/~shawki/dodo.com.au/Various_English_Engines.html |
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Alan
Part of the e-furniture
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Post by Alan on Apr 6, 2014 9:52:06 GMT
Thanks for the above tips. I havnt got to the boiler fitting stage , but I can remember being told about the clearance between boiler and wheels, never the eccentrics.And I thought I had good communications with Reeves over this design! Keep all the info flowing
Alan
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Post by shedman on Apr 6, 2014 17:50:26 GMT
Well folks, what a fantastic response and I shall definitely call it a locomotive from now on! So far I have only got the frames and stretchers together, but the issues surrounding clearance sound significant I will take a look at my drawings and see if I can post a sectional view.
ps I just tried to upload a small image of progress to date but the upload failed with an error that this forum has exceeded its space limit. Does everyone get this?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2014 18:06:25 GMT
Hi Graham
Use a host such as photobucket ( there are others),copy and paste the direct link in your reply using the 'insert image' tab. You'll need to use the 'reply' tab seen top right of the quick reply bar, not the 'post quick reply' tab bottom left.
Regards
Pete
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2014 20:12:10 GMT
Not sure that I know what a Sterling Single is. Is it the same as the Stirling Single desigened by Patrick Stirling for the Great Northern Railway in the late part of the 19th century ?
Regards
Jim
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Post by drumkilbo on Apr 6, 2014 20:23:39 GMT
I bought a set of frames and most of the castings and Reeves plans recently off ebay as I've always fancied the looks of this loco, also went home to Scotland from the Lake District via Shildon in March to see the two A4s from across the pond and came across the preserved Stirling Single and took loads of photos. I did a wee bit of work in the winter and have got the horns and axleboxes fitted and machined and axles done, will probably have a go at the wheels soon so I'll be following what you're doing very closely. Welshy, who used to be on this forum, was building a lovely one and here's a couple of links to pics he put on the forum. Ian modeleng.proboards.com/thread/3386/more-pics-5-stirling-singlemodeleng.proboards.com/thread/3387/differant-pic-stirling |
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Post by shedman on Apr 7, 2014 20:21:46 GMT
Hi folks Well it sounds like there is a lot of interest in the model and yes the Sterling Single is the one designed by Patrick Sterling an example of which is in the National Railway museum. It sounds like I am in a similar position to Ian in that I have the frames and axle boxes but not yet the axles. I have been investigating the clearance issue that was highlighted by jma1009 and on my drawings I have the same problem. When the axle box is at the top of the hornblock the top of the pump eccentric is inside the boiler by 0.598"!. At the moment I cant see where the error is, the distance from center of boiler to center of cylinder is as per Reeves drawing and I think I have the hornblocks in the correct place. I also think that the other eccentrics interfere with the boiler. The other issue I have is that the outlet on the top of the feed pump is very close to the underside of the boiler (1/8"). So close in fact that I cant see how you could get any pipe work in. I am hoping that I have done something stupid on my drawings but at the moment I am struggling to see the problem. I have produced a set of drawings that show the problem which you can see at Sterling Single there are also some photos of my build, the loco at the national railway museum and I am attempting to do some videos of the construction that I will put on to YouTube shortly. The section view below shows the problem.  On another issue I am about to get some tender frames laser cut and was wondering if any one else would be interested in a set? Ps the photos in the link that Ian posted look fantastic. Graham |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2014 20:44:52 GMT
Hi Graham
had a look at your link... very nice work.. I love the look of the Sterling single, such a beautiful loco, looking forward to seeing further updates.
Regards
Pete
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2014 20:57:01 GMT
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Apr 7, 2014 21:29:23 GMT
it doesnt take much to sort out the 'niggles' on published plans, honestly!! just dont be a slave to the drawings and think ahead and study everything! there are some really superb 5"g Stirling Singles operating on our club tracks.
i would omit the axle pump anyway on a 'single' as otherwise the virtually frictionless motion of a single is lost and you get a jerky loco, and i would fit 2 x 12 oz per min or 2 x 18 oz per min injectors.
cheers,
julian
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61962
Seasoned Member
Posts: 129 
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Post by 61962 on Apr 7, 2014 22:39:00 GMT
Graham,
I fully agree with Julian. Forget the pump, 2 12 ounce injectors will be more than capable of feeding the single - actually one will suffice, but you have to have two because they are very visible on the single.
Jim by the way is absolutely right. Patrick Stirling was responsible for these fine locomotives. Sterling was a hot air engine man and must not be confused with Patrick!
If you are going to do this locomotive correctly, you must get hold of the font of all knowledge "The Stirling Singles" by Leech and Body. As built in 1870 the first of these locos (appropriately GNR No 1) was not totally successful and was soon modified to solve a number of issues. Subsequent locomotives were build in pairs, each pair having slight modifications as the design developed. Ultimately the developments were applied to the whole class. Leech and Body gives the details of all of these changes with drawings of almost all the pairs as built and many detailed drawings and contemporary photographs. No 1 as preserved is not really representative of the condition it was in at any time in service, but the tender that is being overhauled currently at Shildon (In process of being painted when I saw it yesterday)will put right one of the greatest wrongs.
My Stirling is No 774 so don't build that one!
Good luck
Eddie
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Post by ejparrott on Apr 8, 2014 7:35:05 GMT
On this occasion I am agreeing with Julian and Eddie, and I'd say don't bother with the pump. I like the pump on my Lion and my Hunslet, and both the Manning Wardle and the TR No.4 will have their pumps fitted. With that much of a cock up on the design though I wouldn't even attempt to redesign it. You must have two independant means of putting water in the boiler to pass the steam test, and I'd never rely on having just one anyway - it only takes the slightest bit of dirt to stop play. Fit 2, and consider a tender handpump.
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