Lbsc

[andrew7931]

Hi I am just starting out in model engineering and I am finding it hard
Mainly how to do jobs in the lathe / milling . I was told that LBSC book would help as a
Generic guide on locomotive building I was wanting to know if this is true and which book would be best
Thanks
Andrew

[ejparrott]

Shop, shed and road. It is in my opinion a good book, but as an experienced model engineer and working in a subcontract engineering environment, it's very dated. However, 99% of model engineers will never pick up on it.

[smallbrother]

Oct 13, 2014 10:34:34 GMT andrew7931 said:

Hi I am just starting out in model engineering and I am finding it hard
Mainly how to do jobs in the lathe / milling . I was told that LBSC book would help as a
Generic guide on locomotive building I was wanting to know if this is true and which book would be best
Thanks
Andrew

I spent decades in mining and civil engineering before taking up this hobby so started out from scratch with lathe and mill work.

I think the demo youtube videos are of more use than books. I bought several books and old black and white photos and a lot of blurb don't help much with a dynamic subject, in my view.

Pete.

[Deleted]

The Simple Locomotive building Tich book is pretty comprehensive with workarounds for those with limited equipment (speaking generally, not directed at you). I think it would carry over to whatever design you choose to build. It gives a basic description of Walschaerts valve gear and slip eccentric type, describes boiler-making (see your club tester for revisions), cylinder machining etc in a lot of detail. If you don't like any of the methods you don't have to follow them as I have been known to do but it is a starting point. I have it and think it compliments Shop, Shed and Road (which I tend to think of as for codging blobs and gadgets onto a loco rather than outright building of one). As you go along you will find you need to refer to books less and work off your own initiative but its still nice to have a reference library. I was not new to lathe work but still glad of a guide when machining for example my first loco cylinders.

Also this forum is as much help as anything.

Regards,

James.

[terry1956]

Andrew, you don't say what part of the country you are in.there mybe a night glass available and some clubs have their own workshops.you will be able to see first hand the workings of a lathe and talk to people.books at the first stage I dont think would be much help without seeing first hand the machine working.michael

[Roger]

I'm not sure that LBSC is very good at explaining how to make anything, he's too vague and leads you to think it's all dead simple. Take a look at the 'Workshop practice series', there are some quite good ones there. I've also found L.H. Sparey's book 'The Amateur's Lathe' quite good ISBN 0 85242 288 1

To be honest, pretty much all of these books are long overdue for replacing with something more up to date. Most don't cover the use of tools using carbide inserts and only refer to Myfords as if they are the only lathe in the world. They also don't mention variable speed drives which are now commonplace and a real help. You certainly won't find those older books mentioning CAD and CNC which as also commonplace in Model Engineering

I'd agree with an earier comment that you're better off asking here or maybe looking at YouTube videos, although some of those are done by people who have no idea what they're doing.

[ettingtonliam]

Oct 13, 2014 13:54:15 GMT Roger said:

I'm not sure that LBSC is very good at explaining how to make anything, he's too vague and leads you to think it's all dead simple. Take a look at the 'Workshop practice series', there are some quite good ones there. I've also found L.H. Sparey's book 'The Amateur's Lathe' quite good ISBN 0 85242 288 1

To be honest, pretty much all of these books are long overdue for replacing with something more up to date. Most don't cover the use of tools using carbide inserts and only refer to Myfords as if they are the only lathe in the world. They also don't mention variable speed drives which are now commonplace and a real help. You certainly won't find those older books mentioning CAD and CNC which as also commonplace in Model Engineering

I'd agree with an earier comment that you're better off asking here or maybe looking at YouTube videos, although some of those are done by people who have no idea what they're doing.

I agree that both LBSC and Sparey are somewhat dated, but if you are starting off with basic equipment and not much money, they are still relevant. LBSC made us think it was dead simple, because the way he did it was simple, and his designs satisfied us at the time. The hobby has moved on, lots of people, like yourself Roger, are no longer satisfied with a loco that goes (well) and looks roughly like the prototype, its got to be exactly right, including all the bits no one else can ever see. Theres nothing wrong with this either,and maybe its time for someone to write an up to date manual for the construction of model locos, but it needs to cover basic methods such as LBSC and Sparey described, and the more advanced stuff like your beloved CAD and CNC, 3D modelling etc. Any volunteers?
No book on turning is going to cover the use of every make in detail. A Myford is a good basic lathe, (no, I don't have one)and probably the one in more home workshops than any other make, so theres a lot of sense in using it as an exemplar, but principles of turning explained around the Myford are easily transferred to the majority of other lathes. Variable speeds? Yes, my lathe has a mechanical variable speed control, and I wouldn't be without it, but equally wouldn't condemn Sparey because his book doesn't cover them. Would your modern book cover flat belt drives, because believe me, theres more of them still around than you might think. Its actually easier changing speed on a flat belt lathe than it is on some gear head Warcos for example, when you have to change belts and change gear to get the next speed up.

[Alan]

Shop shed and road is a good investment. Not the best for showing you anything, but it shows what building a loco is all about.
Loads of other books and videos to be watched and if you are not careful, you can spend more time reading and watching than doing.

Join a club and get unlimited free instruction.

[donashton]

There is every chance that without LBSC's huge legacy we would not be building small engines, the Myford might never have come, and this forum would too esoteric for most.
He was firmly on the side of the tyro'

Don.

[andyhigham]

Have a look at the videos on www.youtube.com/user/doubleboost
Very informative and a bit of a giggle too

[Roger]

Here's a little gem from the history books about Southbend Lathes

[terry1956]

Hi, I just made the new valves for my pansy using LBSC,s shop shed and road. yes it takes a bit of reading and some drawing out to understand what he is saying. but I would of been at a total loss without it. I do think however that the whole subject of model engineering needs an update after all LBSC,s book is from 1929. michael

[Rob]

I agree with those above that have suggested YouTube videos, I think you'll learn a great deal more watching something being done than reading about it.

Don't just stick to model engineering videos, watch those that are doing it for industry too, the same sort of practices can apply.

One of my favourites is Keith Fenner

His background is mostly in the shipyards, but he does a wide variety of things and it's all very interesting. 

[GWR 101]

Hi Andrew and welcome, I have both LBSC's Shop Shed and Road and Martin Evans Manual of Model Steam Locomotive Construction and find them very useful as are the contributors to this and other web sites. Of course these books were around before the www. which does contain a multitude of information. Have you considered joining a local club which will also be a source of help, and inspiration. Good luck Paul

[jma1009]

re LBSC you have to remember that in roger's case the Speedy construction book isnt typical of his work,
and in the case of the ME construction articles and his 'Loco Lobby' he was influenced by his post bag from beginners wanting to build a miniature loco with very basic equipment. LBSC himself had an extremely well kitted out workshop - as good as any tool room at the time, and his own machining and metal work skills were way above what he described in his articles.

his 'Shop Shed and Road' and 'Tich' construction books are still favourite well thumbed reads of mine! the chapter on driving Tich is the best description of driving a miniature loco IMHO. if you want to read LBSC at his prime read his articles from 1945 and 1946.

my lathe wont cope with modern insert tipped tools, and i only use tungsten tipped tools (usually) when turning cast iron.

cheers,
julian

[runner42]

Reading books on model locomotive building are good bedtime reads, they get you motivated however they do little to help you become experienced in the hobby. If you are new to the hobby you may also be new to the use of your lathe and milling machine. Start making practice items using low cost materials to find about the vagaries of your machines. Once your reasonably proficient start building your locomotive and when you run into a particular problem research the solution through the various mediums available on the Internet. I found this forum particulary helpful. You can't pre-empt running into problems by reading about the subject beforehand, you got to have it in front of you. So start and good luck with your first project.

Brian

[Deleted]

Hi and welcome---------if you have absolutely no lathe or milling experiences at all then I strongly urge you to enrol in a night class and be introduced to them by qualified Instructors first... These are power-operated machine tools and are not to be treated lightly.....Also, pop along to your nearest club and have a chat with them.....You're be made welcome and much practical experiences will be available to you --- as it is here as well....... What have you in mind to build then ??

[Roger]

Practical experience is the key, and that's only going to happen when you get started. None of the books I've read really give any insight as to how springy tools and work can be, and how they can continue to cut ever finer cuts on the same setting at times. Very little guidance about the effects of overhang are to be found either. I found out the hard way as a kid, trying to grasp why the diameter was bigger the further the part protruded from the chuck. Neither do they give much indication of how quickly a you can go from something that won't quite fit, to it being too loose. That transition takes place over such a small change in dimensions it can catch out even the most experienced machinist.
Books tend to obsess with 'correct' feeds and speeds which are often hopelessly wrong for the sort of equipment we have. I think there's a market for a much more practical book on machining that not only encompasses modern methods, but also explains these issues in a useful way.

[goldstar31]

With the wisdom of old age( yuk), I would suggest that you get( from the net) Advanced Machine Tool Work by A H Smith.

There is absolutely nothing in it that is how to build a loco but it contains graded exercises in machining. I'm guessing it is about 1923 but heigh ho, it is fairly recent.

Oddly again, this book thing about building locos is quite revolutionary. A man who couldn't read or write actually built one- which worked. On the other side of the river to where he was born there was another man who seemed to mend anything and whose literary talents in reading were westerns by- if my memory holds firm , were from the pen of Zane Grey.

I was thinking- somewhat obscurely of Oliver Goldsmith and realised that the man who lived on the other side of the Tyne to my dear old dad didn't need to write- because there were no books on locomtive building anyway.

It may not be the way that the Village Schoolmaster taught- but it is true.

Cheers


Norman

[Deleted]

Hello Norman---I'm just going to venture "off-Piste" as it were as I want to tell you all of a wonderful book I found in a Charity Shop recently.............The ISBN is}---- 01/04-14 1 1066 666 -------------and it's entitled "Teach yourself to read, Vol 2" ...................... by}--- N. O. Boddee. I'm finding the second chapter a wee bit heavy going at the moment and the total lack of photos doesn't help either...No matter, I'll persevere....