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Post by ronhancock on Dec 26, 2014 22:48:21 GMT
Hi i need info i want to use a gas valve on my Black 5 boiler i am building.
The valve is stainless looks as though it will be reliable.
I just cannot see how the regulator can be connected to it.
I have seen a Black 5 with a push pull lever in cab roof so presume he uses gas valve.
Been told several using them now can any one suggest how to connect standard regulator lever to it please.
Ron
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Post by Jim on Dec 26, 2014 23:51:16 GMT
Hi Ron, I'm using a gas valve as the regulator on my Britannia, when I get her into steam that is. I had to make up a bush to screw the valve to which was then brazed into the smoke box tube plate.   The plastic tap handle has bee removed and a new metal one made up as shown in the this photo of a test fitting of components. The long copper tube hanging off the front is just to try the connection   John on his Britannia Builder's site has an excellent photo of the smoke box linkages to make it all work. www.britanniabuilder.com/kit18c.htmHope this helps. Jim |
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Post by ronhancock on Dec 27, 2014 15:42:28 GMT
Thank you i have some thing to work to know really appreciate your Help
Ron
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Post by Jim on Dec 27, 2014 23:59:06 GMT
Hi Ron, Glad to be of help. If you can find them the gas valve I'm using has the Teflon valve seats retained by a bronze adjustable ring so that should the teflon expand to much in the heat it can be relieved by easing the retaining ring. In the photo you can see the hex opening for a socket spanner to fit to adjust the seat.  My valve came from a ship's chandlery, I'm not sure if they are still being made though. cheers Jim |
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Post by ronhancock on Dec 29, 2014 22:51:38 GMT
Hi Jim have you taken the linkage through the side if the smoke box or did you still use the normal regulator handle.
I can see how it works if it's from the side but i am trying to use the standard regulator handle set up.
Been puzzling for hours now just can't seem to think how i can change it still using my Regulator handle.
Cheers Ron
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Post by Jim on Dec 29, 2014 23:52:43 GMT
My apologies Ron, I had a brain snap and was thinking the Black 5's had external regulator rods like the Britannias connecting to the regulator mounted in the smoke box when in fact of course they don't. What a clot I am !!  Do you have Don Young's book? You may also get much better help posting a request for help in the General Chat section or the Black 5 section. Personally I'd go for the General Chat section as the one most frequented and where your request will be seen by the majority of members. Sorry I can't be of more help. Jim |
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dem132
Seasoned Member
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Post by dem132 on Dec 30, 2014 9:12:04 GMT
The Don Young's designed black five has the regulator in the inner dome, and uses the rotary disc type regulator. I'm getting close myself to the point that I need to start thinking about the regulator. Using gas valve have Pro's and Con' like all designs have. I have a Maid of Kent which uses the rotary disc type and was unsatisfied with the original passageways, and modified the holes into teardrop shape, which provides improved regulator control, they don't seal well when hydraulic testing the boiler.
I've heard and read on this forum people having mixed opinions on using the gas valve, they do seal better when hydraulic testing, do lack granular control and issues around the PTFE seat for the ball when housed within the boiler itself. Personally I've decided against using a gas valve and shall make a Gordon Smith style "upside down safely valve" regulator for my black five. Plus, when I measured up and discovered all the additional parts required to install a gas valve, might as well make a make the Gordon Smith regulator.
ModelWorks etc, used them all the time, I've driven a couple Brits and 9F which use the gas valve and I wasn't really impressed with the performance of them. A couple of other steam train manufactures using standard gas valve as they are cheap, and installed externally.
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Post by ronhancock on Dec 30, 2014 13:50:13 GMT
My apologies Ron, I had a brain snap and was thinking the Black 5's had external regulator rods like the Britannias connecting to the regulator mounted in the smoke box when in fact of course they don't. What a clot I am !! Do you have Don Young's book? You may also get much better help posting a request for help in the General Chat section or the Black 5 section. Personally I'd go for the General Chat section as the one most frequented and where your request will be seen by the majority of members. Sorry I can't be of more help. Jim |
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Post by ronhancock on Dec 30, 2014 13:54:56 GMT
Hi Jim thank you for your Reply.
I have given much thought to using Gas Valve but think i might drop the Idea and use a screw Regulator.
I already have hole Drilled for Regulator so makes more sense.
First boiler i have built but did change regulater from Disc to Screw type seems a good regulater.
Decisions disisions
Happy new year
Ron
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Post by ronhancock on Dec 30, 2014 13:55:50 GMT
The Don Young's designed black five has the regulator in the inner dome, and uses the rotary disc type regulator. I'm getting close myself to the point that I need to start thinking about the regulator. Using gas valve have Pro's and Con' like all designs have. I have a Maid of Kent which uses the rotary disc type and was unsatisfied with the original passageways, and modified the holes into teardrop shape, which provides improved regulator control, they don't seal well when hydraulic testing the boiler. I've heard and read on this forum people having mixed opinions on using the gas valve, they do seal better when hydraulic testing, do lack granular control and issues around the PTFE seat for the ball when housed within the boiler itself. Personally I've decided against using a gas valve and shall make a Gordon Smith style "upside down safely valve" regulator for my black five. Plus, when I measured up and discovered all the additional parts required to install a gas valve, might as well make a make the Gordon Smith regulator. ModelWorks etc, used them all the time, I've driven a couple Brits and 9F which use the gas valve and I wasn't really impressed with the performance of them. A couple of other steam train manufactures using standard gas valve as they are cheap, and installed externally. |
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Post by ronhancock on Dec 30, 2014 14:00:59 GMT
Thats really intresting I really am strugling over the Regulater i have thought of using a gas but now decided to not use gas reg.
I am thinking of using a srew type Regulater have you thought of using one.
Several members use this type and seems to work well and reliable.
Be intrested with your thoughts
Ron
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dem132
Seasoned Member
Posts: 122
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Post by dem132 on Dec 30, 2014 14:14:27 GMT
Hi Ron,
I wasn't going to use a screw type, mainly due to the thread would have to very coarse to allow for the 60 degrees of the regulator handle, and that's one of my favour parts of the back head. I guess you could install a screw type, and extend the regulator rod from the back head to provide enough clearance. All depends of what style of back head you would like.
I agreed the screw type do work well, and seal tight when boiler testing.
Also, do you have the standard Don Young boiler? I don't think the standard screw down type regulator like the simplex would fit due the tapered boiler, might have to put a step after the inner dome for the steam pipe.
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Post by ronhancock on Dec 30, 2014 14:42:31 GMT
Hi the boiler is not standard its an inch wider than the standerd taper boiler.
At the moment its just in thinking Stage.
I am about ready to weld Boiler up pipes are welded and smoke box welded stays welded outer wraper Drilled .
Going to start on the Stays this week i have already welded the Bushes into back head.
I am trying to work out best options had not thought about fitting the Regulator into the taper boiler.
You have given me more to think about thank you.
Will see what options again after i finnish the stays will let you know.
Good luck with yours
Ron
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Post by gilesengineer on Jan 17, 2015 9:14:03 GMT
I've used a ball valve for a regulator in my 10 1/4" Bagnall for 13 years now, where it's given perfect service, with excellent control. However, it is steam rated, as opposed to a 'gas' valve which usually has a yellow handle and a lower temperature rating. (Steam rated valves often have red handles)
I should also be nervous about mounting a ball valve in the smoke box, where I would expect the temperature to exceed that which the valve could cope with. External, internal would be fine.....
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Post by ronhancock on Jan 17, 2015 10:19:42 GMT
That was another reason i decided to make the Regulator using cheeses simple also no linkages to go wrong.
The cheese type i have started to make in a 7/8 tube so alowing plenty steam.
I made steam holes pear shaped so it was easy to regulate
I think long term it will be best option and easy to remove if needed
Ron
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