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Post by alanstepney on May 21, 2007 18:37:36 GMT
One day you will die.
Then, your widow (partner /children/whoever) may want to sell your models and equipment.
How will they do so without getting ripped off by the sharks that are always ready to profit by the misfortunes of others.
How will you, or could you, prevent this happening to YOUR equipment and models?
(This thread is prompted by an event a couple of years ago when I bought some books from the neaighbour of such a widow, and learned that the engineers models had been bought from her for a pittance by a so-called dealer. Not one of the known names in the trade I hasten to add.)
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Post by mutley on May 21, 2007 19:05:13 GMT
I make a point of making sure my wife knows what my models are worth, however I have often wondered if one of the federations or some similar body could setup a system similar to the gauge 0 guild executor service. As I understand it they auction to members of the guild the estate of deseased members and so ensure that a fair price is raised for the models.
Andy
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Post by bobpendleton on May 21, 2007 19:07:47 GMT
How will you, or could you, prevent this happening to YOUR equipment and models? I seem to remember an Australian(?) solution reported in ME(?) whereby members of the (one day to be) deceased's Club are committed to support the widow in the disposal of his modelling effects. There was a model form of agreement that set out the procedure to be followed. Maybe someone can turn that issue up and remind us of its contents. Bob P
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Lurkio
Seasoned Member
Posts: 101
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Post by Lurkio on May 21, 2007 19:14:10 GMT
Alan,
I was feeling OK today....until I read your post! It's an important point, though. It's no use telling nearest and dearest that 'this lathe is worth x pounds, this micrometer y pounds etc.' as they'll just forget - it's likely they have no engineering interest/background. My simple solution is to value your stuff now and write it down in 'a little black book', updating it every so often. Also determine who you can trust, be it someone reliable in the trade to sell your stuff to, or someone you trust in the hobby who can dispose of it. Write these people down in the book too so your clan know who to contact. Then let your family know where they can find the book if the worst should happen. You can do this for all your personal effects - saves a lot of hassle for those left behind.
Lurkio.
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Post by havoc on May 21, 2007 19:35:04 GMT
We recently had a pair of deaths in the club (this is a hobby with a mean age of >60). In both cases this was handled by the club. They took care of valueing and making it known to the hobby in general. Easies it to let those that stay behind know that some club or organisation will take care of that.
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Post by alanstepney on May 22, 2007 12:23:59 GMT
For those who are club members, contacting the club and getting their advice is probably the best solution.
For people who are NOT club members, leaving the name of the closest couple of clubs around might be worthwhile. I am sure that any club secretary, on being contacted in such a situation, would know of some members who could give decent advice.
Anyone any other ideas?
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Post by dickdastardly40 on May 22, 2007 14:51:50 GMT
If I tell SWMBO what my collective workshop is actually worth rather than what she thinks I paid there may be a slightly frosty atmosphere. (In truth I did buy a drill press for £5 on ebay but the rest cost a soupcon more than I told her or appeared without discussion). The best course for me is a sealed notarised letter to be opened in the event of my death. ;D
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Post by havoc on May 22, 2007 18:33:01 GMT
I hope they open it after your death...
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Post by chameleonrob on May 22, 2007 21:05:49 GMT
one answer is to leave your workshop etc. to someone who could make use of it, or failing that, to you club.
rob
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SteveW
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,395
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Post by SteveW on May 22, 2007 22:41:06 GMT
Guys,
Don't forget that what all the kit is worth is quite a lot different to what someone is prepared to pay for it. We meet the middle men at the various MEXs through the year.
When a friend moved on a while back his wife had great difficulty clearing his workshop. She really didn't want to get involved with a protracted drip, drip, drip of selling the odd bits and no one in the club was in any position to buy.
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Post by Shawki Shlemon on May 23, 2007 10:31:02 GMT
When one of us goes to Haven and leave his/ her workshop and models ,the family MAY keep some of the models and decide to sell the rest .To sell quick one will not expect full price because people will only buy things they do not need now as a bargain , as long it is not a rip off , I believe it is OK . After all some other model engineer will be using them . This happened in our club a few times list was made priced and advertised in the club .reasonable prices were paid ( cheaper than normal) .Let us worry about one day at a time .That is one of the benefits of clubs .
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paul
Member
Posts: 8
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Post by paul on May 23, 2007 21:13:51 GMT
I wouldn't worry about it - as we won't be around there is nothing we can really do. There are far more important (and expensive) things that could go wrong but of course you'll have no control over those either! You never know, you're other half/family might tell you one thing today then give all your gear away for nothing because really they hated your infernal hobby! Live for today, let the survivors worry about tomorrow!
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Post by alanstepney on May 23, 2007 21:32:28 GMT
Paul, I'm not sure I agree.
In the event which I originally mentioned, the widow had been conned by a crooked so-called dealer into selling her late husbands models for a pittance.
Whilst we have no direct control over our heirs, ensuring they know where to get decent advice may save them from a similar situation.
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Lurkio
Seasoned Member
Posts: 101
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Post by Lurkio on May 23, 2007 22:47:20 GMT
Paul, I agree with Alan. I know your reply was slightly light-hearted, but I don't want some wide boy diddling my surviving family for his own gain. I believe if I leave them all the relevant info, then I've done the best I can.....it's up to them whether they use it or not.
Lurkio
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Post by houstonceng on May 24, 2007 9:15:28 GMT
One thing I have noticed about club dosposal sales (ie sellinmg off tools, equipement and material on behalf of a widow or children) is that the moneys realised are often lower than you would get from e-bay or even some dealers.
At a recent disposal sale at a well known SE London ME Club, commercial items like an R8 posi-loc milling chuck - complete with metric and imperial collets - and an 8inch vertex rotary table with tailstock went for silly (low) money. I know what they cost new since I own the exact same types. The autioneer started the first item at about half price, then reduced the call - who'll give me £40?, £35?, £30?, £25? - until someone said, "I'll give you £20". Ok. The bidding did rise slowly to - IIRC - £40, but that was still very cheap.
In contrast, two items of superbly finished home made tooling - a slotting tool and a ball turning attachment (looked like ME and G Thomas/Radcliff designs) - raised a very good sum for each.
My theory is that the comercial items are probably already owned by the majority of the club members and, unless they can be bought for next to nothing, no-one really wants to own two. On t'other hand, the hand-made tooling isn't usually available and, maybe the workmanship is more valued.
My advice to wife and offspring is to sell on e-bay with a realistic starting price or advertise in ME/MEW. I've left them a list of the tooling, what I paid for it and told my sons - niether of whom is in any way practically gifted - to use their intelligence to see what similar "previously owned" items are being sold for and price my tools accordingly.
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Post by havoc on May 24, 2007 20:23:06 GMT
I'm on the side of Paul in this case. Why care? Really, be realistic, when you pass away, those left behind have more troubles than thinking how much money they can make of your hobby gear you left behind. I think just as well that those not interested don't care what it fetches as long as it is gone. It may bring them grief just thinking about the stuff and the memories of you it brings back.
My point is: that the family keeps what they want and donate the rest to the club. I guess some of the workpieces would stay around while the tools go out of the house. It can help young members start for a bargain, put the books in the library so many can have use of them and the proceeds can help the club.
Don't forget that because something is of value to you, it doesn't have to have value for someone else. I know of valuable collections trown on the skip because no-one was interested in keeping and no-one wanted to even spend a moment to think that it might be worth something if you took care to look around: "out with the stuff, sell the house and forget it".
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Lurkio
Seasoned Member
Posts: 101
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Post by Lurkio on May 24, 2007 22:40:03 GMT
Havoc,
Got to disagree with you I'm afraid Havoc. Let's say you have a modest setup, say a Myford lathe, a small miller, and a number of measuring and hand tools, drills etc. Depends just what you have of course, but these could easily have a resale value approaching £1000 today. That's just for a modest setup. Then add on the value of any models you own (if any) and you're into multiple thousands Why shouldn't your family have that? I suppose it depends on your financial situation, but to me it's a considerable sum of money. I say let 'em know how much it's all worth and make 'em feel guilty if they don't try and get a good price for it!
Lurkio.
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paul
Member
Posts: 8
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Post by paul on May 24, 2007 22:47:13 GMT
... make 'em feel guilty if they don't try and get a good price for it! Lurkio. That might be a little tricky from beyond the grave! Yes it makes sense to tell people what your gear is worth (and that applies to everything not just your workshop/models) but there's not a lot of point making too many plans because you ain't going to be around to see they are carried out! I think most of us would concur that we have been ripped-off at some point during our lifetime and we'll probably be ripped off after wards... * I've typed/deleted/re-typed this reply more than any other and my abiding thought is... I think you should do whatever you are comfortable with. Personally I don't give two hoots as I'll be no more.
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Lurkio
Seasoned Member
Posts: 101
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Post by Lurkio on May 24, 2007 23:26:46 GMT
Paul, I'll make 'em feel guilty before I pop off! So, can I have your stuff then? Think carefully.....your reply will be a declaration for all to see! A will of sorts. Lurkio
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Post by alanstepney on May 25, 2007 0:27:06 GMT
In the specific case I mentioned, the widow, who I dont believe was too well off, was persuaded by a "trader" that her late husbands models were worthless and sold them to him for £10. They were "several" (5 or 6) running IC engines, of, I believe, the Edgar Westbury designs. One was a 4 cylinder engine. Sold sensibly, they should have fetched around £1,000, at the bery least, half that amount.
He also "took away" all the "scrap metal".
In this case I got the police involved, the engines were recovered and returned to her, and the "dealer" was charged, possibly over this transaction, but certainly regarding other goods in his possession.
Whilst I agree that we wont be there, and it is up to our heirs, I dont like to think of people being taken advantage of, especially at a time when they are vulnerable.
At least this thread has raised awareness of an issue which will affect all of us one day.
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