Lost Certificates

[ejparrott]

Having a long and boring job on the machine I was idly reading the green book....yes I do have a copy under my toolbox at work..... Picked up on something I hadn't noticed before :

12.8
All certificates and records...shall be retained...passed to new owner...If the certificates are lost, and if the current certificate issuer cannot be traced and duplicate certificates issued, the boiler should be submitted for retest.

To what extent should they be kept and should they be lost, which test is required!

Not that it matter's now, but some years ago I had a toolbox accident with the certificates for my Lion..consider those certs 'lost'! That boiler has been scrapped now am I'm making a new one so for me it doesn't matter. Also, they were not the current certs anyway - luckily!

So supposing someone has for some reason lost some of the old certs, maybe got dog eared from years of being carted around, or got wet from a sudden shower of rain like we get. What is the reasonable expectation in order to conform to PSSR? Do we really need to keep the certs dating back to the boilers build? In the case of my 2.5", that's impossible anyway, haven't a clue where the certs are up to '93, if there ever even was any. At a guess, personally, I'd say there's no requirement to keep certs old than the current versions, on the basis that those tests were not PSSR compliant anyway.

Supposing also, thinking of one engine in particular, a club member brings an engine to test that is a known engine in the club, but the certificates are pre current system and are lost. Which test does it require? If the engine is known in the club, maybe there's even photographic evidence of it running at the club, and the boiler shows obvious evidence of running, which test must it have? It obviously must have a test before it can be allowed to run, at a minimum the 1.5xWP and the steam test, but does it need the 2xWP shell test sans fittings out of the frames? The code doesn't actually clarify which test is required.

[jma1009]

hi ed,

under the old southern fed scheme (before the orange cards came in) the certificates were on white paper out of a book with a duplicate copy retained in the book. each book was issued by the southern fed and would last quite a few years. all the old books containing the duplicates were put in the club archive in the strong room/locked cabinet. the records therefore ought to survive if the club still exists!

i expect my view on lost certificates is the same as yours if the duplicates exist in the club - otherwise what is the point of keeping copies?!

cheers,
julian

[nonort]

Out of interest the information on the certificate should be transfered to the blue record card. A carbon copy of all of the certificates will be retained by the old club/new club. The boiler will appear on the data base kept by the relevant federation. I doubt that the length of time that records would be kept by individual clubs is written down anywhere. It is now required that child protection paper work is to be kept for sixty five years minimum. I don't know how far back the Southern Fed can go. A polite note to there Boiler Registrar would I'm sure net a result.

[ejparrott]

That's true, but the blue record card is not part of the scheme now I'm told.

[nonort]

. I think its in there somewhere, in any case its best practice and does form part of the history of the boiler . Full size boilers have history files so why not a model. I personally think a log should be kept of every time you light up the fire. Living in a hard water area it is a useful record of the amount of time between de-scales Having come across boilers that are all but solid in the water space particularly fire box and tube area in early LBSC designs were the tubes are closely spaced. Going back to the blue card it would form add value if selling the loco in the same way as a service record enhances the value of a second hand car.

[ejparrott]

I'm keeping up the blue cards for now, but I'm sure when I last asked NAME it was a case of 'when they're gone, they're gone'!

[steamcoal]

When you are required to provide evidence to a club, other than your own,do you use the Hydro test cert or the new   "certificate"

Is it correct that only after the steam test is completed (yearly) that the Hydro ( three yearly 1.5x w.p) will be also be validated. This will mean that the Hydro test cert is of no use as a "certificate" for club purpose apart from that one event.

Just a variation of the original post;

If a club member comes to a BI with a loco that has no paper work records,that is not known to that club ,is from 1960 say and wants to re-activate the engine what is the procedure?

What test regime will it undergo? Sre they given a new boiler number?

[ejparrott]

In that case, if the original issuing club is unknown, given no boiler number to trace it with then it would be treated as a new boiler and require a full strip out of the frames 2xWP, then it has to be given a new current boiler number, a 1.5xWP test and a steam test.