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Post by springcrocus on Jul 16, 2019 8:00:35 GMT
Hi John, Steve has already altered his original silver soldering plan of silver soldering up the tubes to the combustion tubeplate first, as stated on here 2 weeks ago. Cheers, Julian No, he hasn't. You just assumed that because I haven't posted pictures of the finished tubeplate yet. The method and order of construction of this boiler is for myself and my boiler inspector to decide. Comment all you like, it won't change anything. Steve |
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twombo
Seasoned Member
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Post by twombo on Jul 16, 2019 19:03:00 GMT
Steve, I will be following, with great interest!
as a general question, does anyone have thoughts regarding, estimating required quantities of silver braising alloy?
Mick
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Post by ettingtonliam on Jul 16, 2019 19:40:41 GMT
How long is a piece of string? Variables include size of boiler, number of joints, how good the joints are, how neat your soldering is. Mine isn't neat at all, I tend to flood the job and its surroundings, so I probably use double what a neater worker would.
Rough rule of thumb? However much the copper costs, spend the same again on silver solder. That assumes you are buying the copper from a decent metal merchant, not some of the rip off model trade suppliers.
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Post by simplyloco on Jul 16, 2019 19:45:37 GMT
Steve, I will be following, with great interest! as a general question, does anyone have thoughts regarding, estimating required quantities of silver braising alloy? Mick It depends on the size of the joint and the cooking time...  John |
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twombo
Seasoned Member
Posts: 120
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Post by twombo on Jul 19, 2019 20:27:34 GMT
How long is a piece of string? Variables include size of boiler, number of joints, how good the joints are, how neat your soldering is. Mine isn't neat at all, I tend to flood the job and its surroundings, so I probably use double what a neater worker would. Rough rule of thumb? However much the copper costs, spend the same again on silver solder. That assumes you are buying the copper from a decent metal merchant, not some of the rip off model trade suppliers. Good answer! sir! Neatness is a virtue, but running out of braising alloy in Mid- heat, seems unacceptable! All my copper is all Top, code spec, and the plates are all beautifully done. My boiler is for a 7.25” Marie Estelle. Don Young’s ‘words and music” seem to be echoed by the local membership, and all my study materials, indeed, such Luminaries as Alec Farmer! Now, I just need a practice piece, say, maybe a small boiler, to heat up and flow some spelter! It is all very academic, until, ‘the heat is on! thanks “ettlingtonian” so long as the knot can be tied!! Is an answer! |
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,922
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Post by jma1009 on Jul 19, 2019 22:42:45 GMT
Twombo,
(Off topic, so apologies to Steve for same)
Be very careful about the 'Marie Estelle' valve gear, as Don Young made a serious "cock up" of same, which he never admitted in public. Do a search on here for 'Marie Estelle' and you will find numerous posts about all this many years ago, and if I recall correctly, some solutions.
Best to start a new thread on your 'Marie Estelle' and we can comment without distracting from Steve's 5"g Brit build.
Cheers,
Julian
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twombo
Seasoned Member
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Post by twombo on Jul 19, 2019 23:49:50 GMT
Steve, As a budding coppersmith, i watch your boiler build with great interest for technique. Your work is inspiring and educational, Thanks!
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Post by springcrocus on Jul 21, 2019 8:10:54 GMT
The boiler inspector was unable to attend Broadfields this weekend and will inspect progress on Wednesday instead. I will return to the inner firebox after this. The firebox outer wrapper is the second largest piece of copper, coming in at 608mm x 280mm and was duly marked out by drawing round a paper pattern.  As before, the waste was removed using a jigsaw, leaving a little extra on the bottom edges, and then brought up to temperature for annealing. I've found that it is sufficient to reach dull red or a little brighter to soften the copper. Going higher into the cherry reds doesn't make the workpiece any softer, or remain maleable any longer, so is just a waste of gas. First bends were made by resting the workpiece on top of the former and just pressing down. This caused the crown to rise a little and subsequent forming was done under my press. I only used this because I don't have a clamp long or deep enough to keep the top in contact with the former.  Darth Vader's helmet was obviously modelled on a Britannia firebox. The sides were eased down using a hide mallet (see, Adam, I do take notice) and after two more reheats arrived at the point where I could hold the bottom edges in place with a pair of sash cramps.  This can be left like this while I cut the front throatplate. Then the wrapper can be eased to the final shape. Steve |
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timo
E-xcellent poster
Completing 3 1/2 Rainhill .Building 5" Railmotor and waiting to start 3 1/2" King
Posts: 234
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Post by timo on Jul 21, 2019 8:49:04 GMT
Looking good Steve.
Was quite quiet at Broadfields yesterday a.m.
Tim
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Post by springcrocus on Jul 21, 2019 16:17:24 GMT
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timo
E-xcellent poster
Completing 3 1/2 Rainhill .Building 5" Railmotor and waiting to start 3 1/2" King
Posts: 234
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Post by timo on Jul 21, 2019 16:27:03 GMT
Looks brilliant Steve.
I bet things are starting to get a bit heavy!! Your silver soldering looks extremely neat and clean - I hope I can do as well in the future.
Tim
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Post by springcrocus on Jul 21, 2019 17:31:37 GMT
Looks brilliant Steve. I bet things are starting to get a bit heavy!! Your silver soldering looks extremely neat and clean - I hope I can do as well in the future. Tim Kind of you to say so, Tim, but I've had some help. If the boiler is a success, they will share in the glory but if it turns into a disaster, I will take the brickbats alone. Regards, Steve |
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Post by Roger on Jul 21, 2019 17:35:58 GMT
A few extra pictures of the inner firebox and the tubeplate after a bit of a clean-up. I'd hate to deprive anyone the pleasure of commenting on my work.  Steve Superb work Steve, absolutely great. There's no shame in accepting help, it's the result that's important. These things cost an awful lot of money, so it makes perfect sense to use other people's expertise to improve the chances of success. |
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Post by delaplume on Jul 21, 2019 20:04:04 GMT
As an Ex-Marine Engineer I'll use a phrase that some may recognise}--------"I like the cut 'o your jib, Sir"..!!
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Post by springcrocus on Jul 23, 2019 6:12:38 GMT
I decided to put the two bends in the front throat plate before cutting to shape, the lower section being held between two lumps of steel held in the vice.  The upper, reverse bend was folded around the former to get the basic shape but the former is not quite right and an allowance has been made to compensate.  The bend needed to be higher and is now in the right place. The two bends were adjusted until the plate could be stood on the drawing and matched the draughtsman's lines. Then the outline of the former was marked on the plate, the flange allowance marked and the waste removed.  After cutting, and before the flanging started, a sanity check was made by resting the firebox outer wrapper on the throat plate to make sure I was in the right ballpark.  The former was also double-checked to make sure that it fitted the outer wrapper correctly. The packing pieces are there to simulate the flanges.  Now it's time to get on and form the flanges but I shall need to make some new formers. These fancy-shaped formers that I made are fine for getting a visual outline of the final shape but rubbish for clamping down on because of the angle. Never mind, live and learn, that's what it's all about and good fun as well. Steve |
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timo
E-xcellent poster
Completing 3 1/2 Rainhill .Building 5" Railmotor and waiting to start 3 1/2" King
Posts: 234
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Post by timo on Jul 23, 2019 8:09:43 GMT
Nice work Steve.
Tim
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Post by springcrocus on Jul 25, 2019 6:54:04 GMT
These are the two formers that I used to form the flanges around. This oak worktop has certainly come in useful.  I find this one of the easiest ways to hold the plates, and using a hardwood drift to form the shape.  One thing I did find was that the plate was trying to straighten itself when I was working the area around the fold lines. I had to put the throatplate in the vice between two lumps of steel and get the angle back to thirty degrees. This, in turn, caused the edges to splay out again. I also re-annealed this plate about seven times before I was happy with the finished article. Here it is, offered up to the firebox outer wrapper. It's slightly askew but will be simple to ease into the correct shape.  And two views from the side and the inside.   Big hole next. Steve |
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Post by David on Jul 25, 2019 7:08:51 GMT
You've done a great job on that. It looks like you managed to keep the flange continuous over the bend. Where did the copper go that wanted to push to the outside? I can't imagine having done it without taking a wedge out of the flange at the fold line.
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Post by simplyloco on Jul 25, 2019 7:44:43 GMT
Great job Steve!
John
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timo
E-xcellent poster
Completing 3 1/2 Rainhill .Building 5" Railmotor and waiting to start 3 1/2" King
Posts: 234
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Post by timo on Jul 25, 2019 7:48:45 GMT
Steve, that looks fantastic. I am really looking forward to seeing the boiler in the flesh.
Tim
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