Haymes
Active Member
Posts: 29
|
Post by Haymes on May 23, 2015 17:12:21 GMT
Hello All, Since William Stroudley's single wheelers and LBSC have been mentioned on here lately I thought you might be interested to see some photos of my 3.5" gauge 'Grosvenor' . I have been building the loco since 2007 and have recently achieved reasonable success in running after quite a number of test runs. Regards, Carl
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 17:32:23 GMT
Oops, there was an error! This forum has exceeded its attachment space limit.
Just tried clicking on photos to enlarge but got above error message.
|
|
|
Post by donashton on May 23, 2015 17:36:03 GMT
Pleased to note your success, Carl, and thanks for sharing such a nice engine.
Don.
|
|
Haymes
Active Member
Posts: 29
|
Post by Haymes on May 23, 2015 18:55:34 GMT
Trying the images again... Carl
|
|
|
Post by digger on May 23, 2015 20:50:38 GMT
That is one nice looking locomotive, many congratulations on it's completion, I hope you derive as much pleasure running it as you obviously did building it, and welcome to the forum.
Digger
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 6:41:17 GMT
Thanks for the larger images.
Well worth viewing.
|
|
|
Post by Shawki Shlemon on May 25, 2015 9:19:36 GMT
Looks great to me , well done , happy steaming soon .
|
|
jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
|
Post by jma1009 on May 25, 2015 9:35:22 GMT
hi carl,
one of my favourite locos - you have done a superb job!
what cylinder/steamchest arrangement does your miniature version have, and did you have difficulties with clearance of the driving wheels with the boiler?
LBSC also made a 3.5"g LBSC 'Grosvenor', and was a rather special loco of his being quite accurate and fully lined out and with all the frills added, all things which normally he didnt do on his own locos.
cheers, julian
|
|
Haymes
Active Member
Posts: 29
|
Post by Haymes on May 25, 2015 20:44:08 GMT
Thank you all for your kind words Julian, I have copied 'LBSC' and placed slide valves above the cylinders, taking the drive from 'downstairs to upstairs' with a rocker. The valve gear is like the GWR type with launch links - I spent a lot of time reading and pondering over Don Ashton's excellent web site! I believe that LBSC used an arrangement similar to his 'Tich' with Stephenson's link valve gear for his 'Grosvenor' but I only found that out recently. It was difficult to fit the lifting links under the boiler when in back gear but the wheel flanges are OK. Please see the following screen shots from my CAD drawings / sketches I decided to go slightly under scale for the boiler barrel diameter and pick 3". William Stroudley managed to squeeze in 4'5" on the full size 'Grosvenor' which would equate to 3.3125" on 3.5" gauge. Sticking with 3" diameter gave me some room for the wheel flanges even with the cleading and some insulation material underneath. You might well observe that perhaps I could have squeezed in another firetube. You'd be right! If I was building this boiler again I would add another. My recent testing has involved running with the superheater removed. This has increased the gas flow area through the tubes but she uses more water and the exhaust is slightly wetter. However I have also been experimenting with the draughting and I'm thinking it may yet be possible to re-fit the superheater. It's very interesting to do a direct comparison on one engine between saturated and superheated conditions. Regards, Carl
|
|
jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
|
Post by jma1009 on May 25, 2015 21:32:30 GMT
hi carl,
thank you so much for the further information and CAD drawings. i suspect you have a lot more on file! i would be extremely interested in anything else. i will PM you, though personally i think your marvellous miniature recreation is rather special and would be of great interest to forum members and i am sure we would love to see move of the drawings and design development and what sources you used!
for the non-Brighton/LBSCR fans 'Grosvenor' was THE most famous Brighton loco of the Stroudley era!
i must say i would very much like to build your design.
thank you so much for posting this thread as it has made my day!
cheers, julian
|
|
|
Post by Jim Scott on May 25, 2015 22:45:34 GMT
Hi Carl
What a lovely model, all the better for the extensive use of brass (sorry Julian..). I'm sure we would all like to see more photos when you have time.
What is your original source of dimensional information for your CAD drawings, from a previously published drawing (LBSC ?) or maybe full size G/A? Your photos suggest it is very close to scale.
You might find that there is a fair bit of interest in your 'Grosvenor' given that you have the drawings on file.
Regards
Jim S
|
|
Haymes
Active Member
Posts: 29
|
Post by Haymes on May 27, 2015 20:45:06 GMT
Please see below my GA main view for 'Grosvenor'. I made the drawings myself from various books, trips to the National Railway Museum, in particular to have a look at Stroudley's 0-4-2 'Gladstone' and some standard LBSC style design features. My drawings are really quite basic, I always wanted to capture the style of the full size original and achieve a good level of performance rather than modelling perfection but the main elements are reasonably to scale. Not a great photo but I hope it captures the idea: I found after I had started construction a lot more detail in The Engineer magazine, September 17th 1875. This is now available online if you search for it at www.gracesguide.co.uk/Main_PageI still have some minor details to add and of course then there's the painting to tackle! So it will be a little while before 'Grosvenor' is completely finished. How about a 7.25" gauge version anyone!? Regards, Carl
|
|
Haymes
Active Member
Posts: 29
|
Post by Haymes on Dec 18, 2015 10:09:08 GMT
I thought the photos below might be of interest in view of the recent posts in Julian's thread on his 'Stepney'. This is how I formed the tender tank on 'Grosvenor' from one sheet of brass. I saw this method somewhere else but I can't remember where! BMS drawn angle is useful if the inside faces are reasonably smooth. I think I just polished them up a little and applied some grease. I milled the holes on the centre line of the angle for the lengths of threaded bar and filed up some washers to allow the nuts to pull up onto a flat surface. By pulling up both sides together steadily you have excellent control of the bend. Another useful thing is to draw on an arbitrary datum line and then measure where the bend comes relative to it. If you've also measured the position that you set the BMS angle relative to before you started the bend you are then able to accurately determine where the bend is going to finish up on subsequent bends. Using careful measuring I was able to make the 4 bends in the tank in the right place quite easily. Cheers, Carl
|
|
jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
|
Post by jma1009 on Dec 18, 2015 10:35:25 GMT
hi carl,
many thanks for the tender details. that is a very good method.
how are you getting on with the painting?
cheers, julian
|
|
jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
|
Post by jma1009 on Dec 18, 2015 21:18:52 GMT
i would echo paul's comment!
i think that Grosvenor and Abergavenny were the most beautiful locos ever built, both of course LBSCR and Stroudley.
Carl has done an extremely good job. he has very kindly sent me lots of other pics and details via email, plus as we can see from one of Carl's pics above it is a working loco not a showcase model.
cheers, julian
|
|
Haymes
Active Member
Posts: 29
|
Post by Haymes on Nov 16, 2016 21:22:08 GMT
Hello All, Apologies for taking 11 months to reply to your question about the painting Julian! After a lot of testing, trying different paint methods, experimenting with turnover stands, lining pens and other things, please see below some photos of the painting I have completed so far this year. The tender is more or less done, only the engine to go! I would definitely recommend Chris Vine's excellent book "How (not) to paint a locomotive". Painting the loco has certainly been as big a challenge as making it, I have learned a lot. Hopefully you like progress so far. Regards, Carl
|
|
jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
|
Post by jma1009 on Nov 17, 2016 0:03:09 GMT
Hi Carl,
As with Miken's Gold medal winning 'Bessborough', I am lost for superlatives to describe.
A very fine job on what must have been a very tricky paint job especially the clover leaf lining of the panels, especially in 3.5"g.
Do please give more details as to method of lining, and paint sources for the Stroudley livery.
I am very pleased to see these excellent models of LBSCR locos on here from Mike and yourself, and both working locos not in showcases.
Cheers, Julian
|
|
Haymes
Active Member
Posts: 29
|
Post by Haymes on Nov 17, 2016 20:51:56 GMT
Thank you for the compliments – I know where the mistakes are though! It’s not perfect but it’s as good as my current skills allow and I am happy with that. I will explain a bit more about the methods I used: First off was paint choice. I bought a tin of Stroudley Improved Engine Green and the appropriate vermillion, olive green and claret from Precision Paints. Whilst the paint is of good quality I thought the colour for the IEG was far too brown, almost like milk chocolate. I played around with some paint samples from the RAL and Pantone standard range and found that Pantone 145 is close to Stroudley's IEG but is just a bit too yellow. Therefore I decided on mixing my own sample to be colour matched… I was also keen on using aerosols if possible. There are several draw backs in terms of paint control but they are extremely convenient. I found Riolett Custom Aerosols in Milton Keynes - www.riolettcustomaerosols.co.uk/ who are able to provide aerosols to a matched colour. Furthermore they offer 2K aerosols which have a hardener compound also in the aerosol. You press a button on the base of the can to release the hardener before use. Only drawback is that the can then has a shelf life of 6 hours or so. More on this later... As pointed out in Christopher Vine’s book, one of the best ways to combat orange peel is to apply a thicker coat. The problem is the formation of runs but Chris Vine has hinted at what is in my view the obvious solution – a motorised turn over stand: This was built from a few odds and ends, some cheap bearing blocks and a shaded pole motor obtained off ebay. I used 'Item' extruded aluminium frame parts for the bracketry to hold the parts during painting. This offers lots of flexibility. Shown below are the wheel sets on the turn over stand: Painting three at a time was a bit ambitious so I ended up doing them individually. Also shown is my simpler version of a spay booth – a cheap 'instant' green house, just big enough for the parts: The tender tank is shown in the booth before painting. My procedure has been to spray all over as thick as I dare, turn the motor on, zip the front up gently and leave the job to dry for 20 – 30 mins. Regards, Carl
|
|
jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
|
Post by jma1009 on Nov 17, 2016 22:50:15 GMT
Hi Carl,
An excellent description!
Is th riolett paint cellulose?
Bob I hope will contribute on the paint shade. He must have done a considerable amount of research. I recall Stepney was painted in the late 1990's with Precision/Pheonis paint so I was told. The improved engine green of Stroudley is a difficult colour to get right - The SR got it wrong on Boxhill in 1947 initially. Dr J Bradley Winter's Como in Brighton Museum was painted by the old foreman painter circa 1905 using the original paint (the tender was painted later but before the Marsh livery change).
I have examined Como on some 3 occasions but the museum lighting and placing of this wonderful miniature loco do not give a true idea of the correct shade in daylight.
Cheers, Julian
|
|
|
Post by GeorgeRay on Nov 18, 2016 10:23:50 GMT
Julian In case you are not aware the Brighton Circle were able to photograph Como out of its glass case a couple of years ago. They then had Craftmaster paint make up a batch of a matching colour which was available to Circle members. I believe all that batch has now been sold but Craftmaster will make a further quantity if required, I can't remember the minimum quantity though. George Ray
|
|