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Post by gall335i on Sept 20, 2015 12:59:25 GMT
Hey guys, Thought I'd share my new build with you guys I originally started with a set of Jim Vass drawings but soon realized there not up to scratch of what is being produced now! So I started collecting works drawings from York NRM. So on Friday I went up to my laser cutters to collect 2 sets of parts, one for me and one for a friend. Here's some pics to start with. Auto cad drawing so far.  At the laser cutters.  Back at home and out the car, about 1/4 ton of steel sitting there for them both.      Took me 6 hours to cut up one set of parts! More to come. Andrew. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2015 14:10:01 GMT
Very nice Andrew...I shall enjoy watching this build....best wishes...
Pete
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Post by joanlluch on Sept 20, 2015 14:31:06 GMT
Hi Andrew,
Wow, what an impressive optimisation of laser cut sheet space!. These parts shall look quite splendid once assembled together. I can't wait to see some of it taking 'volume'.
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Post by albert on Sept 20, 2015 16:20:54 GMT
Hello, This as far as I am concerned is not model engineering, Just buying parts and putting them together. As a m/e the skill is in making the parts, not just sticking them together and then claiming ---I built this?  Will you build the boiler? I do not think so. Albert |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2015 16:46:21 GMT
To be fair Albert many model engineers make use of laser cutting, myself included....it's not difficult to cut flat sheets of metal to a profile but it sure does take a lot of time which in today's world most don't have. One look at Andrew's parts and ok there's a lot of them but this doesn't take away from how much work is needed to build this loco, a lot of these parts once silver soldered together will still need machining to final size.
I wish I had had such a set to work with, I'd be a lot further into my own build than where I am now...
Pete
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Post by gall335i on Sept 20, 2015 16:46:50 GMT
Thanks to everyone for the comments! Everyone has there own opinions!! Albert I have started from scratch with this, works drawings rescaled on auto cad then cut for me! I guess that you aren't in favour of CNC machines or 3D printing then? Maybe a bit to new tech for you?? Who knows!!
And ref to the boiler YES I am building it from Steel! Already have the drawing reworked from copper to steel and had them checked by club inspector who builds steel traction engine boilers!!
Each to there own!
Andrew.
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Post by noggin on Sept 20, 2015 18:06:49 GMT
Nice,Looking forward to seeing it being assembled,Should save a lot of time,Garry
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2015 18:12:09 GMT
Looks like a good start, hope it goes together ok. I can see where Albert is coming from but I'd like to bet the same comments (or similar) were banded about when somebody put an electric motor on a lathe or people started adding milling machines to their workshops. I do not think some people appreciate the work that goes on behind the scenes when using todays technology and think that you just show the machine a drawing and it makes the part.
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Post by gall335i on Sept 20, 2015 19:00:12 GMT
Thought I'd have a go at one section to end the day!! Tender drag box. Just snapped together and stayed together!!   Andrew. |
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stan
Seasoned Member
Posts: 110 
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Post by stan on Sept 20, 2015 21:04:56 GMT
Hi Andrew
I thought my 5" 9F was big, I have also used as much laser cut parts and only wish I could master using cad so very lucky when John Baguley (Baggo) did them for me. I have built several 3 1/2" locos and drew them and cut them by hand so I have done it the hard way, looking forward to your build photos.
Stan
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by smallbrother on Sept 20, 2015 21:11:33 GMT
I started off using a slide-rule at university in 1973 and by graduation in 1977 I was using a scientific 10 figure calculator. As a senior Chartered Civil Engineer many years later, I never felt the need to sneer at junior engineers who had never even heard of a slide-rule. It's called progress.
Good luck with the project.
Pete.
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Post by Cro on Sept 20, 2015 21:51:26 GMT
Hello, This as far as I am concerned is not model engineering, Just buying parts and putting them together. As a m/e the skill is in making the parts, not just sticking them together and then claiming ---I built this? Will you build the boiler? I do not think so. Albert Albert this is quite a narrow way of looking at model engineering as a whole, don't engineers these days sit infront of a PC using CAD to design and build machines? Whether it is 2D/3D CAD or CAD for electronics or anything else they are all tools of the trade these days. Joan is a great example of this, he has turned all of his CAD modelling into so far a rolling chassis by means of out sourcing, he's assembling and working on items as he goes, does that not technically count as building it? I support Andrew in what he's doing as it saves him and other a lot of time they may not have. I use my own work as an example, look at this pedestal, started off life as a laser cut kit that I drew from works drawings are you saying this isn't model engineering?    This is also a 9f pedestal so it is slightly relevant to Andrew  Adam |
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Post by Roger on Sept 20, 2015 22:00:12 GMT
Hello, This as far as I am concerned is not model engineering, Just buying parts and putting them together. As a m/e the skill is in making the parts, not just sticking them together and then claiming ---I built this? Will you build the boiler? I do not think so. Albert I think it's a mistake to assume that those who use these techniques aren't perfectly capable of doing it the hard and very slow and painful way. It all depends on whether you want to live long enough to see a finished locomotive or not. I expect you're quite happy to buy castings for many parts of a locomotive for machining and hand finishing, and this is no different. All of the parts have to be defined and the construction techniques carefully thought through with a view to how they are best jigged for assembly. All of these parts will require hand finishing, some will require machining, and there will be plenty of opportunities to show off their skills doing that and the thousand other tasks required to build a locomotive. This is Model Engineering, just as much as anything done by other methods. We all use tools and equipment made by others, stock that's nicely finished in convenient angles and squares, but nobody would suggest that it's not Model Engineering because they use those. Is it not Model Engineering if you machine a surface rather than file it by hand, use marking blue on a surface plate etc? Good luck to anyone who's smart enough to embrace all of the tools and technology at hand to achieve their goal. Putting them down does nothing to improve the state of our hobby, and frankly it's and insult to their abilities. |
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Post by springcrocus on Sept 20, 2015 22:07:10 GMT
To be fair Albert many model engineers make use of laser cutting, myself included....it's not difficult to cut flat sheets of metal to a profile but it sure does take a lot of time which in today's world most don't have. One look at Andrew's parts and ok there's a lot of them but this doesn't take away from how much work is needed to build this loco, a lot of these parts once silver soldered together will still need machining to final size. I wish I had had such a set to work with, I'd be a lot further into my own build than where I am now... Pete Not sure I'd agree with that, Pete, you've shown that you are a highly skilled engineer and I think that you would get a lot less satisfaction from working with this level of pre-fabricated parts. However, this is not intended to detract from what Andrew has created, after all he has had to draw these parts and instruct the laser cutter, a highly prized skill in its' own right. Each to his own, I look forward to seeing this project develop. We all have different skills and apply them accordingly. My own meagre ones are in machining but I can't draw for toffee. Steve |
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Post by rogsteam1959 on Sept 20, 2015 22:29:43 GMT
My full respect for this work. If you at this stage putting all parts together after drawing you have done a very good job. Keep on posting your results.
Michael
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Post by joanlluch on Sept 21, 2015 6:01:34 GMT
I suspect that at some stage Andrew may surprise the naysayers by showing his 'traditional' model engineering skills. Let's stay tuned on his build.
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Post by albert on Sept 21, 2015 7:54:54 GMT
Hello,
I built my first of 9 locos over 50 years ago, my second project was a Dore Westbury milling machine (still going strong). Built 8 traction engines up to half size. Made patterns for more half of these (self taught from books).
Built 30 copper boilers, can weld but not to steel spec. Built several locos and a steam lorry,locos mostly narrow gauge from my own drawings all original (no freelance). Never used laser cutter.
I am still a M/E but not as much as I am now disabled.
Albert
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Post by Roger on Sept 21, 2015 8:15:11 GMT
Hello, I built my first of 9 locos over 50 years ago, my second project was a Dore Westbury milling machine (still going strong). Built 8 traction engines up to half size. Made patterns for more half of these (self taught from books). Built 30 copper boilers, can weld but not to steel spec. Built several locos and a steam lorry,locos mostly narrow gauge from my own drawings all original (no freelance). Never used laser cutter. I am still a M/E but not as much as I am now disabled. Albert Nobody doubts your abilities Albert, but spending endless hours with a saw and file to make something than can be done an easier way doesn't make sense to many of us. I can do these things too, but I don't see the point. I do these things when it's necessary and appropriate, not out of dogma. We should respect the skills that each of us has, it's not a competition to find the hardest and longest way to make something. Perhaps you don't have any respect for the full size locomotive makers who used flame cut frames and many other such items? Should they have sawn them out by hand and filed them? I think not. |
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stan
Seasoned Member
Posts: 110
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Post by stan on Sept 21, 2015 10:03:31 GMT
I think one of the examples of a good engineer is when he can sort out a problem, and make it work not can he use a hacksaw or a file, keep it coming Andrew I am on your side at 72yrs old I don't know how much time I have left as arthritis has already set in and find it harder to lift my 5" 9F.
Stan
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Post by ejparrott on Sept 21, 2015 11:02:05 GMT
I think you're right Stan.
Keep it coming Andrew, mad as you are!
Some people are just plain rude.
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Will you build the boiler? I do not think so. 
