jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,917
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Post by jma1009 on Oct 20, 2015 22:52:03 GMT
hi Norm,
re the 'window test', this was a ritual we all at times had to deal with on the Isle of Wight years ago.
Arthur had a very well equipped workshop and every Saturday was 'home' at his, and in effect the loco club members of the Isle of Wight club had a gathering there in his workshop alongside his bungalow. when i started, the committee was pretty useless so most of the club business was decided on Saturday afternoons. the workshop was on 2 levels, Arthur having the top floor, via concrete steps. you could tell everyone's steps from the sound made. if it was Don Young and daughter Elaine everything that might have been 'sensitive' was locked away quickly in the cupboard under the Atlas lathe.
'tea time' was 3pm. this involved Arthur retrieving a large flask made earlier. there wasnt enough for everyone so i always brought my own flask in my bicycle saddle bag as the 16 miles round trip meant i deserved a cup of tea!
at 'tea time' the week's work was put on the table cloth (last week's edition of the Isle of Wight County Press newspaper).
the week's work was passed around with various mumerings. if 'window job' 'window job' was the majority view, the iron window over the bench was opened and the offending article hurled out before the maker could protest!
i particularly remember the late John Henry (Arthur's name for John was 'The Mayor', as John had been a Mayor of Brading) had made a handwheel for his 1" scale traction engine that he had spent all week making. it got thrown out of the window. he came back next week with a much better handwheel, that passed the test!
incidentally John Henry's Dore Westbury Mill is now part of my collection of workshop equipment.
downstairs on ground level below Arthur was Ed Mayhew who took most of the pics that appeared in Don's magazine LLAS or retouched up old pics of which he was very good at. Ed was making boiler fittings professionally and very good they were on a rather nice south bend lathe. he cornered the market and supplied most of his to Reeves, as the Fyne Fort Fittings stuff wasnt nearly so good as made by Arthur or latterly Ed, and Reeves wouldnt accept the Fyne Fort Fittings products. if Ed made a lot of noise downstairs on a Saturday afternoon Arthur would get out a large (very large) wooden mallet and wallop more than a few times on the floorboards to wind up Ed.
this was the sort of knock about tough humour i was thrown into in my teens! those times in Arthur's workshop and in his company remain some of my happiest memories!
cheers,
julian
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Post by ejparrott on Oct 21, 2015 8:55:39 GMT
seconded!
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Lisa
Statesman
Posts: 806 
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Post by Lisa on Oct 21, 2015 12:06:12 GMT
I was just flicking through some old issues of Australian Model Engineering, and came across an article by Ted Crawford on Making Injectors which was serialised in the May-June, July-August, and September-October 2002 editions. Of note is a design for a solid mixing cone, which apparently is a drop-in replacement for the split cone used in the example 60oz design mentioned throughout the series.
Thought some here may be interested.
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Post by Roger on Oct 21, 2015 15:05:55 GMT
I was just flicking through some old issues of Australian Model Engineering, and came across an article by Ted Crawford on Making Injectors which was serialised in the May-June, July-August, and September-October 2002 editions. Of note is a design for a solid mixing cone, which apparently is a drop-in replacement for the split cone used in the example 60oz design mentioned throughout the series. Thought some here may be interested. Hi Rose, that's very interesting, is there any way to post the relevant drawing so we can see that? |
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Lisa
Statesman
Posts: 806
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Post by Lisa on Oct 21, 2015 16:21:38 GMT
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Post by Roger on Oct 21, 2015 17:51:27 GMT
Many thanks for that, I wonder how the two compare in operation. It's clear that there is a significant asymmetry in the clearance, and only a tiny land at the bottom to keep at much material there are possible. If this works as well as the traditional type, it would appear that there is a lot of room for experimentation in that area. With a CNC mill you can create some fairly exotic geometry to create clearances while leaving bridging material for strength.
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,917
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Post by jma1009 on Oct 21, 2015 21:42:37 GMT
hi Lisa,
thank you for your very interesting contribution re Ted Crawford.
it is generally acknowledged that the larger the injector the less critical become the 'peculiar' design considerations in the sort of injectors we use in 5 and 3.5"g locos. 60 oz per min is quite a large size!
cheers,
julian
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Lisa
Statesman
Posts: 806
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Post by Lisa on Oct 22, 2015 5:03:31 GMT
Julian, I suspect that's why it was suggested as a first injector.
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,917
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Post by jma1009 on Oct 24, 2015 21:10:50 GMT
i found the following in Don Young's magazine the other evening..
LLAS May 1985 'E.S. Cox' loco construction series
"i have now standardised on a medium horizontal, which means the piping will have to be slightly altered and although this is a definite disadvantage, it is more than outweighed by the reliability of the injector itself, which is far less susceptible to failure through air ingress in the suction system"
as i mentioned the other day you have to take some of what Don wrote with a pinch of salt.
the above quote is rather like the restaurant waiter who recommends the fish, knowing the kitchen has already run out of steak!
cheers,
julian
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Post by rogsteam1959 on Oct 28, 2015 17:10:12 GMT
youtu.be/DlZQD76ofr4Yesterday I got my injectors back from Julian. So I drove to my friend Georg who wanted to test his new-old injector. I suppose the video says more than I would be able to say. Many thanks to Julian from Georg and me
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Post by gingerneer on Oct 28, 2015 20:14:04 GMT
Lots of good information in this thread. I have yet to take the bull by it horns and make some cones. But i inherited the reamers and jigs from my friend and mentor Ron Jeffery. As a head start i have 5 bodies waiting for cones. He worked to the Laurie Lawence designs. With all the reamers and jigs there are at least 4 different injectors that have had holes or been sectioned to observer the working of the cones. I have many questions for Ron, not least about the injectors, sadly he has gone to the great workshop above. I believe he put DAG Brown on to the cage around the ball clack (i can't remember if he is mention in the book), some thing which he must have observed during his time as a marine engineer out in Bombay Docks. High on the list is a test rig with a artificial load unit, the boiler is built just to assemble it. At the local club people are only too quick to blame the injector not the pipe work or water/steam supply
Will
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,917
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Post by jma1009 on Oct 29, 2015 8:34:41 GMT
hi michael,
thank you for posting the youtube clip. as you know i wasnt able to test the large injector in your youtube clip (a large 43 oz per min Arthur Grimmett injector) before sending back to you.
hi will,
it will certainly save a lot of time and trouble if you already have a suitable set of tapered reamers for making the cones. and if you have 5 injector bodies already finished even more time saved! good luck!
cheers,
julian
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Post by rogsteam1959 on Oct 31, 2015 19:26:04 GMT
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,917
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Post by jma1009 on Nov 1, 2015 0:00:58 GMT
hi michael,
thank you for posting the youtube clips! the second and third clips are interesting. the second clip is the john cashmore injector picking up ok, and the third clip is the same injector with michael turning off the water whilst the steam is still on then opening again - quite a severe test! (this injector had a damaged steam cone which was replaced)
we have a slight issue with top operating range - on my tests this injector went from 90 psi down to 25, but michael cant get it to work above 75 psi. we had a very interesting chat over the phone today to try and sort out why this might occur. michael's english is very good and he has a very good grasp of injector operation which is rare! postage to Germany is only £3.50 for a small package.
cheers,
julian
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Post by sbwhart on Jul 19, 2017 6:16:25 GMT
(and with reference to Rob's link, Stu Hart says he made 5 that worked but has admitted to me only one of them worked! he states the annular gap between steam cone nozzle and combining cone is 2 thou, but for the 26 oz per min injector he was making it should be 7 thou) Just picked this up:- this is not correct I made five and all five worked I regularly use one on my Simplex the others I've donated to friends who all use them. Stew Hart |
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Post by runner42 on Jul 19, 2017 7:17:44 GMT
I have an injector that in spite of experts inspection and partial rework still fails to operate, due to the combining (mixing) cone being 13 degrees instead of 9 degrees, which being an integral part of the injector body cannot be corrected. However, is it possible to drill out the existing combining cone and replace it with a split mixing cone fixed in position using Loctite? This is a bit more tricky to do than a single combining cone, but it apparently been achieved by all who have applied this modification. I haven't read the how to words so I don't know how the split mixing cone is fixed in position.
Brian |
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robmort
Hi-poster
3.5" Duchess, finishing 2.5" gauge A3 and building 3.5" King
Posts: 174
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Post by robmort on Jul 19, 2017 18:11:01 GMT
(and with reference to Rob's link, Stu Hart says he made 5 that worked but has admitted to me only one of them worked! he states the annular gap between steam cone nozzle and combining cone is 2 thou, but for the 26 oz per min injector he was making it should be 7 thou) Just picked this up:- this is not correct I made five and all five worked I regularly use one on my Simplex the others I've donated to friends who all use them. Thanks, Stew, for clarifying. Seems someone has been spreading misinformation! Goes to show that there is always room for alternative and improved constructions methods, in this case for aligning the cones. Rob |
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,875
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Post by Midland on Jul 19, 2017 20:30:42 GMT
Was musing the other day, is there anyone to whom we can send injectors to have them checked out, a sort of injector repair clinic. I hate scrounging off DAG Brown or anyone else but for a small fee they could tell me "good, bad or just plain ugly!!"
D
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,917
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Post by jma1009 on Jul 19, 2017 21:33:52 GMT
Stew Hart is far cleverer than me and has a far better equipped workshop than me. I have not the slightest doubt that he got all 5 of his injectors to work.
I am very careful with quotes or as alleged misquotes. There is an email or PM on another forum from Stew that was the basis of the above referred to quote. However as previously stated I have the highest regard for Stew's contributions in the press and on other forums. And it is very nice to see Stew posting on here.
I am currently sorting out a 'large' Gordon Chiverton injector of 36 oz per min delivery which requires a new steam cone to replace the damaged original of early 1980s vintage.
Cheers,
Julian
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,917
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Post by jma1009 on Jul 19, 2017 21:42:55 GMT
Hi David (Midland),
Yes there is such a person who does this free and gratis, and to whom you sent your injectors a few years ago.
You will recall your steam valves being the culprit.
Cheers,
Julian
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