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Juliet
Sept 30, 2020 9:22:19 GMT
Post by jcsteam on Sept 30, 2020 9:22:19 GMT
One solution would be to plug and solder the hole on the top of the cylinders, while adding extra meat to the top, There is nothing that can interfere with it, So as Malcolm says Soldering a plate of bronze over the top of the cylinder hole to be blanked would beef up where the hole was going. More work, to profile a piece of bronze to fit, then tinning and final solder, without anything moving, but by setting up a jig, both sides could be done, and the cylinders are rescued without any issue of the steam pipe not lining up, Check clearance on your frames, as these may need filing a touch to fit, or you may have got away with it.
Jon
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Juliet
Sept 30, 2020 9:39:28 GMT
Post by delaplume on Sept 30, 2020 9:39:28 GMT
Hi Peter, and I apologise profusely !!..........I seem to have put the eeeby- geebies curse on your efforts with my last comments.....LoL !!
Please don't try and shoot yourself at close range ....... you'd probably miss anyway ( Big chuckle !! )....
Yes, as per Malcolm's ideas....
Remember the Golden Mantra}----- Measure once, measure twice, cut once !!
If it helps any like yourself I'm on my own out in the workshop and quite often will "Talk it through" out loud, to myself just to see if it sounds feasible.....the current Water Bowser project is a case in point.......I've discovered that a design calculation made earlier on was over optimistic and as a result I've had to reduce 4 areas to make it work ( Details coming soon !! ).....A lot of work that could have been avoided if only I had re-checked my original design sizes in relation to one another !!.........
Lesson learnt--- we move on..
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
Posts: 2,269
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Juliet
Sept 30, 2020 9:54:41 GMT
Post by smallbrother on Sept 30, 2020 9:54:41 GMT
Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated. I will get some brass and see if I can add some meat.
Looking slightly ahead, the threads for the exhaust pipe are 5/16 and 3/8 both by 40 tpi. Is 40 tpi critical or would 32 tpi be ok?
Pete.
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timb
Statesman
Posts: 512
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Post by timb on Sept 30, 2020 10:04:32 GMT
Hi Pete, There is only supposed to be 1/32 clearance to the edge so all may not be lost! Could you use a slot drill to cut the hole in the correct place? I.e. right up to the edge of the hole you have drilled. The 5/16 x 40 thread will only be 16 thou deep at the thread, you should get away with it. Malcolm is right though the exhaust holes need to line up but is does not look like you are miles away. Tim
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stevep
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,070
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Post by stevep on Sept 30, 2020 10:25:15 GMT
Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated. I will get some brass and see if I can add some meat. Looking slightly ahead, the threads for the exhaust pipe are 5/16 and 3/8 both by 40 tpi. Is 40 tpi critical or would 32 tpi be ok? Pete. Pete, I suspect that 40 TPI is specified so that there is still some 'meat' on the tubing after the thread has been cut. The coarser the thread, the deeper it is, and with thin wall tube, it could cut too deep. If you are making the tube yourself by drilling out a piece of brass bar, then you could reduce the diameter of hole you drill, but that reduces the available space for the steam and exhaust to enter or leave the cylinders.
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by smallbrother on Sept 30, 2020 13:22:48 GMT
I have ordered some bits and pieces.
More importantly I have had another good read of the "words and music" and at last it makes sense how all this goes together.
Pete.
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by smallbrother on Sept 30, 2020 13:27:34 GMT
Hi Peter, and I apologise profusely !!..........I seem to have put the eeeby- geebies curse on your efforts with my last comments.....LoL !! Please don't try and shoot yourself at close range ....... you'd probably miss anyway ( Big chuckle !! ).... Yes, as per Malcolm's ideas.... Remember the Golden Mantra}----- Measure once, measure twice, cut once !! If it helps any like yourself I'm on my own out in the workshop and quite often will "Talk it through" out loud, to myself just to see if it sounds feasible.....the current Water Bowser project is a case in point.......I've discovered that a design calculation made earlier on was over optimistic and as a result I've had to reduce 4 areas to make it work ( Details coming soon !! ).....A lot of work that could have been avoided if only I had re-checked my original design sizes in relation to one another !!......... Lesson learnt--- we move on.. Would you believe I measured several times and set off, kind of knowing I may have made an error but too confused to stop and have a re-think. This is why I try and do just short times in the workshop on this project. I end up in a kind of daydream which can all too easily turn into a nightmare! Still, no harm done to anybody, just pick up the pieces and move on. Pete.
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Post by jcsteam on Sept 30, 2020 14:00:42 GMT
I have ordered some bits and pieces. More importantly I have had another good read of the "words and music" and at last it makes sense how all this goes together. Pete. I don't know if it'll help your understanding, but id posted this on my build thread which shows how the cylinders, pipe, and Tee piece all fit together with the cylinders.
received_555375181813780 by Jon Cameron, on Flickr
It may be straying from the design but I'm tempted to dispose of the threaded pipe, dismantling it was a nightmare. Instead making up two pipes that become one union flange, and have the pipe bolt to the cylinder with a flange and some small bolts. Sort of an inverted Y. So the exhaust can flow easily out the cylinders. Not decided on this yet.
Regards Jon
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Post by delaplume on Sept 30, 2020 14:22:41 GMT
Hello Jon,
Yes, it's awful--isn't it ??.........Dismantling is indeed a nightmare, having to turn that threaded tube all the way over to one side in order to clear the junction block.....Then all the way back again in order to remove both threaded tubes......And also to remember to re-align the blast pipe when re-building !!... Horrors !!
Countless designs down the years have used this set-up, mainly because it's easy to produce I imagine, especially for the beginner not skilled in curved pipe and flangework...The curved exhaust pipe gives a nice, natural flow and ..... as you rightly surmised...helps reduce backpressure and power loss..
I think our Roger's Speedy has it as new I think.....I'm sure there are plenty of folk out there who have don this mod and can give you some help....... I have a Simplex front end to rebuild soon so I might well follow suit....
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Post by ettingtonliam on Sept 30, 2020 14:38:03 GMT
Yes, I think I'd go for Malcolm's second suggestion - tap and plug the hole for an easy fit, and soft solder seal it. Then redrill in the correct position. I think thats better than drilling the other cylinder wrong as well. Don't worry, we've all done it, anybody that says they haven't is probably fibbing!
Old saying of my grandfathers 'the man who hasn't made a mistake hasn't made anything'
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Juliet
Oct 2, 2020 10:10:44 GMT
Post by philh1aa on Oct 2, 2020 10:10:44 GMT
I notice quite a few suggestions to use a plug with soft solder. Could some form of steam/ water jointing compound be used instead?
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Juliet
Oct 2, 2020 15:39:17 GMT
Post by ettingtonliam on Oct 2, 2020 15:39:17 GMT
Not really, using soft solder stops the remnants of the plug falling out when the hole is drilled through it in the correct position. jointing compound wouldn't do this, IMHO.
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Post by delaplume on Oct 2, 2020 16:29:48 GMT
Rather than Plumber's or Electrician's solder maybe something such as Comsol would be more suitable ??....... After all it's generally accepted for caulking some forms of Boiler repairs...
Ideally Silver Solder ( which ironically is not a solder at all ) has both the physical and temp. resistant qualities needed BUT..........it requires an operator who can handle the torch skillfully to avoid any melt-down......and with the greatest of respects to my good friend "Smallbrother" Peter, I don't think he's at that stage yet....
but that doesn't stop him from experimenting on scrap items....eh ??
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Juliet
Oct 3, 2020 2:58:28 GMT
Post by ettingtonliam on Oct 3, 2020 2:58:28 GMT
Possibly not a good idea to bring his machined cylinder casting up to silver soldering temperature IMHO
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
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Juliet
Oct 3, 2020 9:23:35 GMT
Post by smallbrother on Oct 3, 2020 9:23:35 GMT
At the moment I am leaning towards adding 1/8" of brass to the boss. There seems to be so little room for manoeuvre on the width of the flange as it stands.
Pete.
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Juliet
Oct 3, 2020 10:14:37 GMT
Post by delaplume on Oct 3, 2020 10:14:37 GMT
Possibly not a good idea to bring his machined cylinder casting up to silver soldering temperature IMHO True, but in an emergency it can be done using "out of the box" thinking in your approach.....I've done a few similar items in the past using Oxy--Acetylene for close, localised heating ...Only the part concerned is on view with the rest of the item wrapped in a soaking wet cloth, and a continual supply of cold water poured over it........The idea is not to let the main body get "Heat soaked" and only use the torch for a few moments of time and then withdraw it.....and then again-----and again----etc. slowly until the job is done.... You can also MiG weld using a Brass wire but you really have to be on top of your game for that......
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by smallbrother on Oct 23, 2020 21:16:57 GMT
Bit of progress on a cylinder with the exhaust pipe and it looks vaguely right now. Pete.
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Juliet
Oct 23, 2020 21:46:38 GMT
Post by delaplume on Oct 23, 2020 21:46:38 GMT
Well done, matey !!
So, when are you going to pluck up courage and drill/tap the holes surrounding the ports then ??........ and make and fit the long studs ??
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
Posts: 2,269
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Juliet
Oct 24, 2020 9:21:53 GMT
Post by smallbrother on Oct 24, 2020 9:21:53 GMT
I was thinking of the valve chests next!
As for stud making I was minded to buy lengths of the ready made variety and chop it up.
Pete.
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by smallbrother on Oct 29, 2020 18:09:08 GMT
Well who am I to argue with my old friend Mr Delaplume's suggestion of doing the cylinder covers next? So made a start this evening as shown here. Pete.
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