3D printers

[wiltsrob]

Evening all.

Having read the threads about CAD software I am lumping for Turbo Cad Pro which I hope to collect at one of the exhibitions later this year I have turned my mind to the printer.

I am looking at this one

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-DIY-3D-Printer-Print-6-filament-Reprap-Acrylic-Frame-Prusa-I3-Self-assembly-/272139769390?hash=item3f5ccb562e:g:tIYAAOSwFqJWpfZ1

I know that there are ones costing like 25K but I cant justify that sort of money given how much I already spend on my hobbies. It seams to have a reasonable print area and at .1mm layer thickness should be ok for pattern making with a little cleaning of the print prior to casting.

I was wondering if people had used/dealt with alternatives or these self assembly units ... any problems or advice would be welcome.

Robert

[Deleted]

Hi Robert

I know nothing about these things but think I's worth bringing to your attention a Printer that's been mentioned on FB....This printer is capable of printing in many materials including metal......I have no idea how good this item will be but the promotional video that I've seen looks very promising..

It's due to go live on kickstarter in around 11 days time.....perhaps this is worth a pledge......here's a link to help you decide

Cheers

Pete
www.allforge.com/g2o
Hmm..link doesn't seen to work....try google for Allforge 3D printer

[Roger]

The layer thickness is 0.1mm minimum, so don't expect too much from something like that. Most of these designa are under Engineered in my opinion, they aren't rigid enough to achieve very high accuracy. In the end, it all depends on what you want it for. Most 3D prints I've handled are very grainy and disappointing. I'd really want to handle an item produced on one of these before parting with any cash.

[wiltsrob]

Roger

good point ... most of them seam to run at .1mm until you spend £700.00 plus .. I figure it will be good for learning with and prototyping .. once I am happy with the result I can always use shapeways or some one similar .. with cleaning would 0.1mm be ok for cast iron patterns?

Robert

[Roger]

Hi Robert,
I'm getting the Tiko just to play with really, I can't see much practical use for it if I'm being honest. The finish would need to be ten times better before you could pass it off as something that's been moulded. All interesting stuff though, and I'm sure I'll find something useful to make, even if it could just as easily have been made another way.

I can't see why you couldn't use it for patterns for large Cast Iron items though. I think it would take a fair bit of hand finishing to get an acceptable surface, but that's no different to if you made wooden patterns.

[Cro]

I would recommend against it personally, a friend at work has a similar one and has spent a lot of time remaking bits and using some very accurate measuring gear from work trying to level it all so it will print well and even still im not exactly impressed with anything he's turned out on it, unless they are big solid lumps you certainly wouldn't use them for patterns and they would still need a lot of work.

We now have an Ultimaker at work and that is better but still not great in places but a much better design with the table moving in the Z axis and the X/Y being fixed height and rigidly mounted in he frame work. If careful then this would be more usable for patterns and prototyping.

Sadly low cost/high quality printers aren't readily available just yet, both Roger and I are backing a Kickstarter at the moment for a resin based printer but not sure on lead times with that one and print size is quite small but it's affordable if they pull it off.

Hope that helps,
Adam

[abby]

I have used TurboCad along with several other "affordable" 3D cad software packages and my preference is for 2D/3D ViaCad pro which I have found to be very easy to use and cheap too when purchased online direct from Punch software.
As for printers none of the current crop of "home" printers will produce a satisfying pattern , but why bother ? there are several online services , I use Shapeways.com , that allow you to upload your model file , check the printability of said file , allow you to choose the material for printing then give you a price for the job .
Printing charges are based on volume not complexity, a gauge 1 tender axle box with springs and hangers could be printed in ultra fine detail plastic for as little as a fiver. The detail is good enough to allow raised logo's and text to be easily read. check out this surface quality on gun-metal castings.

A larger pattern such as this inside motion frame for a 5" Castle can cost £100 or more.

Even so a printer good enough to do this quality work costs in the tens of thousands.

[Cro]

Although Shapeways is very useful it's very expensive too and to get the really good quality it almost seems rediculous at times.

There is a good place in London called 3D print UK who do abs but polished which I have used for a few larger jobs and I felt they are much better and do an economy version with 10day turn around or express which is more expensive but couple of day turn around.

Adam

[wiltsrob]

Orning all.

ill probably wait on getting the printer untill I have learnt a bit more of my cad program ..at the moment I am using autodesks 123 design which I find a pain to use...I will most likely up my budget to £700 - 800 mark for the printer..
I wanted to go the self print route given the number of parts I will need for the 16DA it should recover its cost many times over.

mind you in 4-6 months the technology will have moved on a bit and I might get a better machine for my money ..I remember how the inkjet printer was massively expensive to start with back in the late 80's.

Robert

[wiltsrob]

Just been on ebay and Wanhoe do one with a
.02mm layer resolution it is only £725.. I will keep an eye on this as in 6 months it is likly to go down to 500 ish mark

[Roger]

Apr 20, 2016 8:02:41 GMT wiltsrob said:

Just been on ebay and Wanhoe do one with a
.02mm layer resolution it is only £725.. I will keep an eye on this as in 6 months it is likly to go down to 500 ish mark

I agree, it's a rapidly changing field where things are only going to get better. In my opinion, these printers using filament are a dead end technology because they're never going to be fast enough at the high resolution we're all going to want. Still, they're interesting and useful to some degree and raise the awareness of what's potentially possible. I'm looking forward to receiving mine eventually, even though I don't it will be of much use really. The OLO project on kickstarter looks more useful, but the size limitation will be an issue with that. That development might spawn a much more useful and accurate version in time though. I can see that becoming a big player in time, but some people won't like working with liquid polymers.

[ilvaporista]

I'm still in the stone age with a part built RepRap Mendel waiting to be finished. My intended use is to make patterns for larger aluminium and cast iron parts, possibly using the prints (hollow?) as sacrificial patterns. There are about four projects wrapped in to one.
1 Furnace: Complete to the Gingery design
2 Waste oil burner: Mark 1 built but erratic in function and can not hold continuous flame, more investigation required.
3 Furnace equipment: moulding boxes, tongs, crucible lifters etc. Not started
4 3D printer: Base is mechanically complete, nozzle and electronics still to do
I am not looking for the level of detail or finish that Roger or Adam would want, my objective it to have base castings which will then be machined to shape. Believe me machining large narrow gauge 7 1/4" cylinders from a solid lump is wasteful of time and effort. Plus what is costs me just on postage to Italy pays for the raw lump of cast iron never mind the astronomical cost of one off castings.

(in the long term I also want to build a CNC router and plasma cutter combined so that I can machine foam patterns and plasma cut steel parts. I have a fair stock of bits 'put by' racks, gears, chains, etc but that's a project for another decade..)

[Cro]

What I would suggest is get the printer up and running, the big selling point on a lot of these home build printers was that you could print new parts to improve your printer! Well with our skills and use of a workshop we can do that or we can machine new parts to even better tolerances to make big improvements. One thing I've seen from home built prints is the rigidity of the frames and beds can sometimes be pretty awful.

Best to get it up and running, try a few things out and see how it performs. Find a model you think pushes it slightly in terms of geometry and finish and stick with that model whilst you make changes to the settings or if necessary the printer itself until you get a desirable, repeatable finish. Like you say for a sand casting it doesn't have to have the super perfect finish but a good shape and some level of dimensional accuracy.

Whilst its doing its prints you can carry on making bits for the other projects! There are a couple of burnout printer filaments available but I don't know how successful these are and if it is sand casting not really necessary I wouldn't think. If you are doing it as a 3D CAD model you can even design up and print your core box patterns.

Adam

[jem]

Hi Ilvaporista,
I built a waste oil furnace a couple of years ago,using "the artful bodgers waist oil furnace book by Colin Peck" having read Mr Gingery book, and various others. I found that Colin's book seemed the best for me. I have used my furnace many times and am extremely pleased with it. It is easy to light, gives off no smoke once it is going, and does the job. I admit I have only melted Aluminium and zinc, but I have done some quite complicated castings.The book is an excellent guide to furnace design, and his burner is really easy to make and good.

I use polystyrene and roof insulation for my moulds, much easier than making patterns, providing you only want one offs, and you can make very complicated shapes.

hoe that this is helpful

best wishes

Jem

[sis]

Hi,

I visited 17d miniatures between Christmas and New year. They are using a 3D printer to print 7.25" gauge wheel patterns amongst other things. Regrettably I forgot to write down what printer he has but it was less than a grand in price. He showed me a pattern for a 7.25" main driving wheel for a BR Std class 7 (Britannia) and the cast wheel. The pattern was printed in sections as his printer was not large enough for the whole wheel. He then assemblies it with dowels and spends quite some time cleaning up the print and painting it with traditional pattern coating paint. The wheels looked very nice and were much better looking than some of the wheels I've seen from suppliers to the hobby.

So I genuinely think this is an approach that is going to get better and better and the price for the quality we need will be readily accessible in the near future.

Steve

[ilvaporista]

Jan 11, 2018 15:17:38 GMT jem said:

Hi Ilvaporista,
I built a waste oil furnace a couple of years ago,using "the artful bodgers waist oil furnace book by Colin Peck" having read Mr Gingery book, and various others. I found that Colin's book seemed the best for me. I have used my furnace many times and am extremely pleased with it. It is easy to light, gives off no smoke once it is going, and does the job. I admit I have only melted Aluminium and zinc, but I have done some quite complicated castings.The book is an excellent guide to furnace design, and his burner is really easy to make and good.

I use polystyrene and roof insulation for my moulds, much easier than making patterns, providing you only want one offs, and you can make very complicated shapes.

hoe that this is helpful

best wishes

Jem

Many thanks Jem, I have a copy of Colin's book and that is my fall back plan, my current furnace only has one hole for the burner and stainless beer barrels here were not easily available. I like the pattern ideas, that is along the lines that I had for some trials.
Being the experimental (should that read awkward..) type I decided to try my hand at my own burner. It was supposed to be this winter's project to get the burner going but a local rail museum plans a 7 1/4" track and in a foolish moment I said I had some bits and pieces and could knock up a loco fairly quickly.
Once I get round to registering on a photo hosting site I will post some pictures.
Regards

Adrian

[jem]

I made my furnace using an old water heater tank for the outer wrapping, rather than a beer barrel, which has worked very well. they are very strong and easy to weld bits onto, so if you make another then a beer barrel would not be necessary perhaps.

Jem

[ilvaporista]

There has been some progress over the past few weeks. In an idle moment I mentioned 3D printing to my wife and she became enthusiastic. I ordered a JGAurora A5 which has arrived from China in 2 weeks as opposed to the 5 quoted. Unluckily it arrived with the heated bed plug detatched so a new bed is on the way. It looks to be a nice machine to start.
The petrol engined loco is born and is a rolling chassis with the main bits now mounted. We have our Spring show just after Easter where it wil l be on display as a work in progress. I doubt I can get it fired up as I am on the road for the next two weeks.