modelworks black 5 kit advice

[beekay50]

I am looking at buying a Model works black five kit that is complete but not started. The price compares favourably with a kit of castings and a new boiler. I see that many have commented on the poor quality of these kits however my workshop is well set up and I have just completed a dog of a Heilan Lassie I purchased but managed to get it running sweetly, will this have prepared me for the problems with this kit. I would also like any information on the problems I can expect from this kit particularly if any exist with the boiler.  I am expecting problems but view it as being a 5 year project rather than 12 years for a scratch build, not having retired yet.  Is this realistic. any advice gratefully received.

[Cro]

Best advice I can give is don't touch it.

Member in our club has one, it was worked on by a "professional" company and 5 years after coming back from them and it still doesn't run. From what I have seen the Black 5's were one of the worst kits. I have a Winson 9f and around 70% of what I got in kit form ended up in the bin with a lot of headaches along the way and I got mine second hand and most had already been thrown away already!

Go to someone like The Steam Workshop and find a part built model or somewhere similar but avoid the kits especially the piston valve locos.

Adam

[beekay50]

Many thanks. Yes I am beginning to get that impression from what I am seeing. I have looked at some of the steam workshop projects but am a little put off a part built after struggling with the Lassie for 3 years that was part built yet I ended up  replacing badly machined parts, boiler stays, all of them,  stripped threads, wrong  sized components, knurled shafts to make wheels fit etc etc. I am at the conclusion that it is either a fully complete and running model,  but that is outside my budget, or a set of parts where  any mistakes are mine, trouble is I want to be able to run it before I am too old and a new build is 10 years work as I only have the evenings and weekends to be on the job which is why I thought the model works might be a good start, but maybe not. 

[Cro]

I know what you mean and part builts are always a bit of an unknown but I would give them a call and chat to them and see what they have in and what would suit you best. You can get luck on part builts or loco in need of a re-build but you'll always find that someone has done it differently to how you would.

Good luck!
Adam

[uuu]

If you could fall in love with a narrow gauge, or a simple 0-4-0 loco, you'd have a lot fewer parts to make.

Wilf

[beekay50]

Wilf , yes I see your point but having a Grandfather who drove Black 5s and having been on the foot plate several times as a 5 year old I had my heart set on a Black 5 or a Jubilee which I used to adore when train spotting at Crewe or Carnforth in the 50's, so I think more  emotion than logic drives the decision.

Thx

Keith

[Cro]

I think starting from the beginning is probably your safest bet but I would give Malcolm High a call at Model Engineers Laser. The Black 5 is where Malcolm started so there should be a lot of laser cut kits of parts to help you speed things up.

Adam

[4fbuilder]

Hello Beekay50,

I think firstly I would carfully read all of the postings in this section on the MW and Winson black fives, which gives a good insight into the design and it's problems. A good number of owners have found to their cost and horror these kits have a good number of short comings notwithstanding issues with the valves and valve gear but more worringly the boiler problems. My best advice would be to bite the bullet and obtain a set of Don Youngs Black 5 drawings, also a set of his Locomotives Large and Small magazines covering the build description; it's very unusual to see on the various forums any problems with that design; and, as Adam has said contact Model Engineers Laser for some of Malcolm's handy work. Build yourself the bogie and the tender first, you'll have something to push along the bench and admire your work. I would think with a design you can build off plan without problems, the locomotive, many of which have been built over the years, you would be looking at around five years to a running loco. Far better and easier to build yourself than trying to pick up on somebody else's work.
Just some thoughts,

Regards,

Bob