It’s a real Shame

[lordsimon]

It’s a real Shame

Things you should do?
Cry
Bang your head on the wall
Try to work out if they live on a different planet
Why?

I and many of you love to look at a steam engine,
We all like to imagine owning or building one
But we all no how much they cost.
Casting, materials, nuts, bolts, rivets and most of time.

So why do so many people not use common sense when trying to build, a Steam engine even if they have never built one before.

We all are prone to making mistakes and most of use will start again or repair depending on what part its.
So why do people that make a mistake just carry on without thinking of what’s it going to happen in the long run.

I am in the process of rebuilding an engine for someone he bought it at a fair price and it was almost complete at first look its ok till you look again, it looks like 2 people have been building this engine over time.

Frames

The stretchers are in the right place and some of the main holes then we go Swiss cheese elongated holes chucks missing holes here there and every where must be hand drilled even nuts and bolts as plug for odd holes.

Why would you do this?
What a waste almost scrap

Cylinders

Bits added on holes in wrong place over done the valve ports and been filled with silver solder, steam chests no square to the valve

Why would you do this?
Nearly 300 pound for the bin

Motion work

Now this fascinating some of the parts was perfect need a clean but very good, then we get connecting rods that are short out of shape crossheads don’t even go there
So on the boiler and some of the motion is well made

That’s just one engine I have had and found others some worse

Now why would you just through so much money in the bin as in common sense would say stop when thing don’t go right till you can make it right. Why carry on to waste things twice.

I no you can make a few mistake and get away with them but why?

[abby]

Not really sure what you are trying to say here Simon or what your question is , but , like any "DIY" job , there are people who can give the experts a lesson, people who make a complete balls up and every level in between.
Model making hobbies are about enjoying a pastime creating something , and the person who created the piece of junk you describe probably got more entertainment value from it than a professional building to museum standards .
Many of the older models which turn up as unfinished projects were started in the days when owning a lathe was a dream, materials had to be "gleaned" from work and the file , hacksaw and hand-drill were kings. Have a look at Grandad's toolbox - or remember it if you can , then imagine how you would build a model steam engine - often after working a fifty or sixty hour week of hard graft.
Like restoring a classic vehicle , you now have the pleasure of putting the job right so be happy not critical !

[Jo]

Hi Abby,

Nothing wrong with gleaning from work.... Except that engineering companies seem to revolve around paper these days. They have even had the cheek to ban me from recycling from the skip ; on health and safety grounds . What is the world coming too?

Simon: vintage engines have you thought what is right? Are you restoring it as a historical piece for a family to treasure as an heirloom made by one of their relatives or seeking to create a modern model?

Jo

[lordsimon]

i can see what you all are saying which if it was a classic i would have a lot of respect.

But it is a moden simplex and a ruby thats no older than 15 years old.

what i am saying is why would you continualy drill about 10 holes in the same area to place one item or go so far off the drawing that things added would never work in a million years this is modern stuff.

now it will be a nice mission too try and rebuild in one way but its very hard to repair not scrap

loads of welding!!!!!!!!!!!

now if it was a classic this would a pleasure

so the question is why would you drill so many hole with a hand drill knowing that it will be wrong when you could do a better job with a drill press if needed even with simple tooling and a little more time you can do a better job?

if knowing this why would you do it twice on both sides?

knowing how much things are why destroy them even for fun?

if people in my information building for my company say go to a local club and most members would give you a hand as i have been told?

[lordsimon]

sorry one more example

motion brackets most engine have like a double flange at the top to bolt to the frames

now why would one side be cut half off and the other have both

and have loads of holes in in the wrong place and extra

these are casting so these cost loads these will need scraping

But i must say it is all funny but why?

[mmaidnz]

Simon,you do need to remember that model engineers come from all sorts of backgrounds.Some of us have no engineering training at all,thus having to learn from mistakes.That these mistakes are sometimes carried forward is sometimes due to inexperience,other times perhaps financial reasons.Materials are expensive,so I for one will use a slightly off-size item if it will still do the job.
Although I haven't made big mistakes with my cylinders(just one broken tap in a hole),my frame does have a few extra holes.Unless you're building a "hangar queen",these aren't going to make a scrap of difference in the running of a loco.
This hobby is for my personal enjoyment,and when i'm dead and gone,I'm not worried about who has to run or repair my engine.That in itself will teach future owners something about model engineering

[Jo]

Simon: Clearly it sounds like restoration of other people's engines is not for you....

[Tel]

I get that impression as well

[mutley]

Might be worth pointing out that Simplex and Ruby are both descibed as being suitable as first time builds. You are always going to get a higher proportion of mistakes on those models as a result.

[Deleted]

As a new boy, one who has yet to commit to a project, it seems to me that there is a right and a wrong way of going about a first engine.

My method is to have a go at everything using cheap metal and bits from the bin, when I have got the basics right I will try something more detailed but there is no way I am going to risk a set of cylinder castings until I am sure I can get it right.

I can quite see that the excitment of getting an engine on the go is perhpas too much for some but I still think that time practice and patience are the greatest virues.

I managed to buy a load of odd castings on ebay for a few quid and I am having fun,

[GWRdriver]

What a disappointment. I thought this sort of thing only happened in the USA.

I once bought a part-built Maid of Kent (built in UK) which upon closer inspection appeared to have been done by two people. The chassis and platework were superb, but the boiler and fittings were so utterly miserable as to need to be sawed up.

[abby]

I hope you bought it at the right price Harry , what with the price of copper going through the roof some boilers are worth more now as scrap than boilers LOL!

[GWRdriver]

I did Indeed Abby, at a very right price, . . . and I was prudent (realistic?) enough to admit its shortcomings and acquire plates and tube from the old Reeves before everything went wonky. And you are in a sense correct . . . The scrapped boiler (now sawn in half) is presently worth somewhat more as scrap than I paid for the replacement materials from Reeves.

There was a period of time, a window of opportunity, some years ago when I could acquire sets of formed plates from Reeves for less money than the plate alone would cost me here. . . . those were the days . . . .

[lordsimon]

Sorry if you got me wrong what i mean is with a little bit more thought by the person who put all the hole and other things may have made less of a mess.

dont get me wrong this is not to slate off any one or to say that i cant do things i can make and do most things and i am happy to repair and sort out any thing.

all it is a question with little less speed and a bit of thought you can do things even with a hand drill file and saw if needed

you can make some cool things with a set sqaure rule center punch scribe

in stead of plunging a drill in driffrent places hopeing for the best

This a discusion thought to help new people in doing it the right way and set things out within there means without making a complete mess

take your time

sorry if you think i am trying to slate people off i am not it is to highlight not to complety build an engine that may never work for the case of a little more time and thought

dont make me out to be an bad one because you dont Know me and the people who do would say i am the niciest freindlest person around and i would do any thing for any one

dont put me down and if you have a comment that is not polite dont paste it please

you dont no me

simon

[Myford Matt]

Don't worry Simon, I don't think anyone was having a go at you; I'm sure none of us think any the less of you.

They were just pointing out that for many of us getting things wrong can be as informative as getting things right.

[alanstepney]

I have been rebuilding a couple of my early efforts at loco building.
When I look at them now, I cringe at some of the bodges I did, mistakes I made and covered up, poor workmanship, etc.
However, they did run eventually, (and kept going for 40 years), despite the engineering being poor. (And that is an understatement.)

Experience and practice gradually improved what I made.

However, the most important thing is that right from the start, I ENJOYED myself.
That is, after all, the point of a hobby.

Others could (and may still) look at my work and criticise it, but I had fun, and relaxation from work.
I would love to be able to build award winning models, but doubt I ever will.
Nevertheless, what I make satisfies me, and that is all that matters.

Now, returning to the engine that Simon mentioned, without knowing the skills and limitations under which the original builder operated, I wont comment.
All I will say is that I hope he (or perhaps she) enjoyed himself.

[GWRdriver]

Alan,
I have exactly such a project under my bench right now. It was my first completed loco project, a "Little Engines" 4-4-0 in 7.5"ga, and a number of years ago I pulled it out with the intentions of going back to right all the wrongs done to it (which were many.) I quickly realized my time would be far better spent letting it be what it was and use what I learned to make the next loco a much better job.

[lordsimon]

See this is intressting of wot lurk under the bench

but my point was even with mistakes would you still make them over and over on the same model

i.e if i put a hole in the wrong place would make sure all the rest were in the right place and make a point of any modifaction just for that hole

[paul]

tel said:

I get that impression as well

Dry as ever Tel.

[alanstepney]

Harry,
As you, and I, well know, it can take far longer to repair an engine than to build from scratch.
A fact that many find suprising.

The part-built "bargains" one often sees advertised are often hardly worth buying, if the workmanship used requires more-or-less a complete rebuild.