It started with a buffer

[oldnorton]

Mike and Don

Interesting thoughts about the red inner frames. Clearly it was done on the higher specification pre-WW2 engines. I can understand an explanation that if they were red then when cleaned at some service point you can firstly see if all the cleaning has been done, and then any tell-tale black lines will be frame cracks. But I wonder if really it was just a tradition that was continued by particular railway companies or workshops? Almost a status styling?

Regarding whether to paint Britannia inside frames red, a Britannia builder friend of mine was quite insistent that the only one that had them was 70004 William Shakespeare, and done especially for the 1951 Festival of Britain. I don't know if he is right, but it sounds plausible. It also reinforces the status rather than safety reason for the painting.

As for whether the tender frames were also done, who knows!

Norm

[Jim]

A sad photo indeed Mike but what a wealth of detail it shows.

Jim (in isolation like any good 80yo )

[don9f]

Apr 1, 2020 14:08:11 GMT barlowworks said:

I know the routing of the cable conduit under the left hand footplate and the location of the battery box under the left hand cab and also the type of equipment in the cab from Rogers thread. All that remains is a picture or dimensions of the battery box and where the ATC equipment was located in the cab. As I intend to model my loco 70018 Flying Dutchman as running in 1955 (the year of my birth) I would like to incorparate the ATC equipment in my build. Any information on this or any further comments would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Mike, I have never been on the footplate of a Britannia that was fitted with ATC and cannot recall ever seeing a photo of one....however, it is almost certainly going to have been the same layout that was used on the 9F. Both 92214 & 92219, that I was involved with, still had the mounting plates for the cab equipment ex Barry Scrapyard. This was an upward extension of the driver’s pedestal and the “Bell Box” was attached to this by five bolts. There was a conduit, formed from 3/4” gas pipe (so just over 1” dia.), rising up from the floor, connecting to the battery box etc. underneath.

I have some photos of this once restoration of 92214 was complete, also some of 92203 & 92220 that were similarly fitted, just might take a bit of searching....I’ll get back to you soon.

Cheers Don

[don9f]

Ok found some, hope these three are of use:-

In these first two, the pipe from the vacuum reservoir to the vacuum operated switch on the side of the ATC box is still to be fitted. Although the details of a Britannia pedestal will be a little different, I imagine the general layout of the ATC box / conduit etc. is the same.





In this photo, the installation is complete (although the 1 inch copper pipe from the vacuum trainpipe to the "siren" is blanked off).



Cheers   Don

[barlowworks]

That's great Don, I should have enough information for when the fateful day comes and I have to make it. It's definitely a bit crowded for the driver in the cab.

Mike

[Jim]

Those are lovely photos and full of detail in terms of colours used and modifications made. I was going to repaint the driver and fireman's seat supports in that nice reddish brown. Rather than the black I had them but a check through the photo library shows they were black on the Britannias for the period I selected for Boadicea.  Pity I like the reddish brown.

Jim

still home isolating and still 80

[barlowworks]

As they say Jim, it's your engine, you can paint them pink if you want too.

Mike

Also in isolation at 64 because I'm diabetic and at risk says Madam Battleship. Not sure if I'm at risk from the virus or her. 😕

[92220]

Hi Norm.

You are right about the red paint, inside the frames, being used to indicate frames cracking. There were a few Pre Grouping companies that didn't use red paint, but they did use other pale colours to show up cracks. All Britannias, and every other B.R.Standard loco had the frames painted red between the back of the saddle and the front of the firebox. This is the area on the frames that was most at risk of cracking. I have the B.R. livery drawing that specifies all painting on a Standard steam loco, in the various liveries - Express, Mixed Traffic, Goods, in Green, Black and Blue. I don't know exactly when the drawing was produced because there is no date on it, but the drawing number - D49-18727 - is a Derby drawing office number, in the early half of the time that steam existed on B.R. Towards the end of steam, the red was only painted above the horizontal stretchers. Below that was all black because any cracks would appear at the points of highest stress, from the corners of the frame cut-outs for the horn blocks upwards into the red area above the horizontal stretchers.

British Standard Signal Red (BS381 537) was specified for all B.R. locos. Evening Star was allowed to vary away from the Standard because it was a special livery for the loco. The frame plates on Evening Star were painted Red but the stretchers, both vertical and horizontal, were painted Black. This was the only loco that wasn't painted exactly to the B.R.Standard. Only at the very end of steam, when they were not too bothered about the life of the loco, they just painted everything Black.

Bob.

[92220]

Apr 2, 2020 17:06:57 GMT don9f said:

Ok found some, hope these three are of use:-

In these first two, the pipe from the vacuum reservoir to the vacuum operated switch on the side of the ATC box is still to be fitted. Although the details of a Britannia pedestal will be a little different, I imagine the general layout of the ATC box / conduit etc. is the same.





In this photo, the installation is complete (although the 1 inch copper pipe from the vacuum trainpipe to the "siren" is blanked off).



Cheers   Don

Hi Don.

Superb photos. Thanks for posting them. Very handy, now I am working on my firedoors and backplate.

Bob.

[barlowworks]

Hi Everybody. The detail work on the front of the lift out section is now complete. Firstly we have the sliding bolt for the cupboard door. This is my second attempt, the first was just like a door bolt and didn't look quite right. It took a long session looking through Fraser Kers website to find photos that had enough detail. Eventually everything became clear and that resulted in the door bolts you see here. The bolts can be locked with a padlock but I have never seen this large locker with a padlock.

IMG_2703 by Michael Cawthorne, on Flickr

The one on the small double door locker is the same. Both lockers have door stops on the inside to stop the doors going through. I soldered then riveted them in place reasoning that if anything came unsoldered when the lift out section was complete it would be nigh on impossible to re-attach it again. On all the photos of this locker I have seen it always has a padlock on it....

IMG_2707 by Michael Cawthorne, on Flickr

...so I just had to have one didn't I.

IMG_2714 by Michael Cawthorne, on Flickr

This is the final detail shot, extra details include the hook and slot for holding the coal access doors open, the hook is always bent in every photo I have see so I thought I had better do the same. The chain with the loop on it on the right was, I think, put on the water scoop handle to stop it inadvertently dropping down in service. A bit of a Heath Robinson affair, I don't think I will rely on it for my water scoop, It will be locked up underneath somewhere when in use. There were rain channels over both lockers. I had no suitable channel in stock but did have some square tube which, when one side was filed off, made an ideal rain channel, soldered in place with my resistance solderer and 145 degree solder to give a nice clean finish. Finally a western region lamp iron was made to carry the spare lamp on the tender front. Here it is fitted with one of the beautiful scale lamps that my lads bought me for my last birthday.

IMG_2715 by Michael Cawthorne, on Flickr

And just to show it all works. Quite a bit of Anglo Saxon went into the making of this part but the end result is quite satisfying. The next job will be to fit the rear plate and probably find out it doesn't fit.  .

Be safe

Mike

[mbrown]

I love this kind of fidelity to prototype. The bent hook is a sublime touch!

Malcolm

[coniston]

Cracking job Mike, if that was black I would have thought I was looking at the full size.

Chris D

[barlowworks]

Hi Everybody, Here are the final photos of the lift out section build. Firstly this is what the lift out section looks like when fitted, its now got the roof fitted, I'm quite pleased with how it looks.

IMG_2718 by Michael Cawthorne, on Flickr

To finish off the lift out section there is a raised lip on the rear of the roof. On looking at prototype photos it appears to be bolted on so that seemed to be a good excuse to brake my 14ba tap. I made up the lip and marked out the fixing holes then spot drilled tapping size into the rear of the lift out section. I eventually managed to tap the holes and inserted 14ba bolts then re-drilled the lip clearance size and fitted the lip with nuts and bolts. The last part was the fire iron tunnel. I decided this would also be removable so first made and fitted the brackets that it sits on. These were simple brass triangles with a steel plate silver soldered to the top edge. While I was silver soldering I also soldered a length of rod into a slot in the triangle to help locate it. Finally the brackets were soldered to the tank sides. The drawings that I have show the fire iron tunnel as being straight but photos of the prototype show different, the tunnel flares into the cut out in the tender front, so I have tried to do the same. It was all a bit of a faff but I got there in the end. The fire iron tunnel was made up of 18thou nickle silver, mainly because I had some in stock and thought it would be easier to bend up the various shapes. The tunnel has a couple of magnets located in the base to line up with the brackets and they hold it in place quite nicely.

IMG_2723 by Michael Cawthorne, on Flickr

This final shot shows the fire iron tunnel removed.

IMG_2727 by Michael Cawthorne, on Flickr

That just about finishes the front of the tender, bar a couple of small details. I think the next thing in the workshop will be some work on the garden railway including some new motive power, inspired by Roger. Watch this space.

Stay safe

Mike

[Jim]

Lovely work Mike and beautifully detailed too. I left the fire iron tunnel off as it made the removable front of the tender cumbersome so I opted for a short dummy tunnel.

Having seen your neat solution I'm tempted to do the same and thereby have the best of both worlds.

Cheers

Jim.

Staying home, keeping a social distance and washing hands... Oh, and not touching my face .

[barlowworks]

Hi Jim, good to hear you are well during the current shenanigans. If I remember correctly you made your tender of galvanised steel. You could make up the fire iron tunnel with the magnets on the back and it should stick to the side without a problem. I'm glad I made the tunnel from nickel silver, it was so much easier to cut to shape and solder.

Keep safe

Mike

[Jim]

Hi Mike, I have some nickel silver which I'll use and for the magnet a strip cut from a plastic fridge magnet should hold the tunnel in place.

That should keep me busy for a while.

Fortunately the infection curve is flattening here but the indications are that the current restrictions on travel and socializing could be in place for a while yet to ensure the risk of another outbreak doesn't reoccur.

Jim

[92220]

Super detail Mike. I really like the slightly bent hook. A1 job!! Sorry about the pun. Should have said Class 7 !!

Bob.

[barlowworks]

I think the hooks were bent so they fitted into the slot better. On very photo I looked at the hooks were bent so I just had to do it the same. 😉

Mike

[ettingtonliam]

Wonder if the bend was on the works drawing?

[uuu]

On the fold of the drawing?