Asia

[beaumont]

Has anyone built the 5 inch Asia from drawings by Reeves and who could help with drawing errors?

[pugsy]

Never done one myself, but its high up on my bucket list, its a very tasteful choice of prototype which I feel would look good next to a 5" scotchman class, also designed by mr William Martley for the LCDR

[dscott]

The cylinder block as drawn is 1/8" bigger than the dimensions!
Yes they are a very beautiful locomotive and some design work needs to be done
on the tender to enable the final rivets to go in successfully.
I have just purchased 2 part builts. Maxitrax did the water jet cutting for
one of them but now can't find the files?
I have a photocopy of F. C. Hambleton's Locomotives Worth Modeling
page 434 from John Hill in Exeter who also points out that the valve gear
is from Pansey Pannier and that the valves should be in the middle like Boxhill
or Metros or 517 sorry Fair Rosamund's.
David.

[jma1009]

Hi Beaumont,

I did not know that, as per David's post above, Asia uses Pansy valve gear. If so, I have a long list of corrections for the Pansy valve gear which I will happily send if you PM me your details.

Cheers,
Julian

[dscott]

I have now given up with the motion bracket as it is drawn over 3 sheets in all sorts of elevations and has rivets trying to go into the web of the other sides angle?
There are also too many of them at 3/32 iron!!!

David going back to the drawing board!!!

Dont get me started on the axle pump bracket!!!

[dscott]

I have almost got a second set of drawings if you are interested? Possibly the original builder thought
if I get newer ones she may go together better!
NO.
Now seriously moving bits about to match in better with my Sharp Stuart drawing.
Found a clash on the rear brake hanger!!
Gone to 4 slide bars over the weekend!!
David.

[beaumont]

I have started to build the Asia and am currently struggling with the motion plate. My background is toolmaking so I am no stranger to machining but I know nothing about steam. Having read of the difficulties some people are having with building the Asia I am considering a move to something a little more tried and tested.

[dscott]

The motion plate being on 3 sheets got me scared to start with and the more I looked the more impossible
it all seemed. The problem there are very few drawings without a mass or mess of mistakes!!
I have begun with the new 5700 valve gear from Doug Hewson and am going through the whole locomotive using
a super version of more curves and a better proportioned cab.
The reversing arrangement is a total lash up and would have not made it past the builders on the full size!
I am going for full length inner frames like full size upon which when final painting takes place all the visible
bits just get attached from below and above with larger bolts.
Below the footplate is a large slab of metal to add weight also in the sand boxes. And in front of the firebox
as a stretcher of 1/2 an inch.
The other version does not have the complex brake gear!
I can only seem to find 12 to date Asia's having been built... Have met and photoed 4 of them in the last few years!
Best Regards
David. Recovering tooth problems!!!

I have to get this right as I am building 2 of them!!!

[GWRdriver]

David,
Was one of them Tom Buckland's EUROPA?

I met and became acquainted with Tom some years ago through a friend in Wilts. We carried on a correspondence for some time although he never mentioned construction problems with this loco. The engine won dishware at the MEX in the 1990s (IIRC). Tom is no longer with us, and I don't recall what was done with this locomotive, but I inherited his ASIA drawings. Having just now seen this thread I haven't had the time to dig them out to see what notes and red marks might there might be. I'll try to do that soon.

I have a photo but at the moment my drop box is being uncooperative.


I checked my (Tom's) drawings and there are no notations other than a few numbers in the margins which don't appear to connect to anything.

[davewoo]

David

Regarding Asia water jet cutting, I got SCISS in Staplehurst, almost opposite Maxitrack, to water jet cut the frames and hornblocks for an Asia that was started by a friend. It's run by Ian Gorsuch who is a member of the 2 1/2" gauge association, that was a few years ago. Sadly the friend passed away and the castings and cut parts were sold. Might be worth asking if they still have the files, they do a nice job and very helpful.
Dave

[dscott]

Hi Dave,
I have the very Locomotive kit and superb it is too.



Here is the version I am working on during the winter evenings alongside Twin Sisters as there are also issues with her as well.
Groan.
The tender is fine but needs some work on the so called final riveting and as usual there is no set pattern of constructing it which is what Drawings are meant to do.
Having the works drawings helps From Friend John Hill, and my biggest cheat will be having the valves working in the middle of the space between the slide bars. John Hill is mentioned on sheet 1.
Meanwhile the valves do their thing borrowed from Doug Hewson via the 57XX drawing purchased from The Steam Workshop of course.

All the motion can be set up and run with the front driving wheels in place.
All other parts can be painted and lined separately then assembled quickly.
The outer frames in Brown and the buffer beams also being added last.
Such standard practice in OO and O gauges.

Oh and the Boiler is too BIG.
Someone built a wooden version from the Drawings and this did not work either!!!

On the Maxitrax water jet cutting they say they never did them as probably they realized that their machine was out of alignment and the frames if put together slightly DO NOT MATCH!!! Plus it was a very long time ago as I have the Invoice.



Shows work on a pair of rear Stretchers/balance weight/footplate once scribed to look like timber (FIREPROOF)



Shows what I discovered on the Twin Sisters drawings and I have it backed up with photos from The Steam Workshop Archive showing a model with overhanging buffers???
This was my moment of giving up and getting a CLEAN SHEET OF CARD.

THEN.
Going UP a size 1 1/16" to the foot scale 2 1/4" longer. 1" taller. The design is 1" scale and 68 years old.
Using most of the existing castings. Some from Butch... Would it surprise you to hear that they were BOTH THE SAME SIZE???
Using a shortened Jinty Boiler as the full size did of course.
And making her easier to build.
There being 1 ONE version. No confusion.

Europer Class 54 and 2 F Fowler Dock Tank
Being the new names of the Designs if anyone wants to give them a try.

David and Lily.

PS. Yes Les did build one... And she worked... But was then asked by Reeves Marsdon Green to rework so that she incorporated as many castings as possible. So wrecking her.
There may be 10 built of each locomotive out there somewhere?

[davewoo]

Hi David

The water jet cutting was definitely direct to Sciss, my friend paid to have the drawings converted to CAD by them, Maxitrack were definitely not involved at all. At the time they were not using Sciss for some reason. The parts were sold to someone from London in 2016 I think his name was Phil, the only part I had involvement in was machining the cylinder block from a lump of solid cast iron. The original cylinder castings were returned to the supplier as they had the consistency of an aero bar! My friend machined the wheels on my old Colchester and I believe there were problems with those too. Interested to read that the loco was redrawn for Reeves, as we spoke about when you visited I spoke to Les Saxby about the engine once and he warned me off saying there were problems. I didn't fully understand at the time as we were looking at his finished engine, now it makes much more sense. Sciss would have cut the parts in 2015. Les had built some lovely IC engines and I think Asia was his only locomotive build. My friend never really got started on the engine as his health declined very rapidly, and it was sold off when we cleared his workshop, which was a herculean task!
Look forward to seeing more of your version, will be a lovely engine and a nice size, please keep up the posts on it.
Dave

[dscott]

I am very lucky to have come via the Design and Drawing route so can make stuff from drawings and descriptions
and also be able to look at something and see where most of the mistakes have been made.
Also recognizing the best parts that the Designer had thought up.

I tend to look at what we have in front from I have to paint this/put her together run and drop the ash pan!

Existing Asia has too many bits to connect up and then get in the way as you assemble the motion.
Many of these are riveted in place then you have to file them flush holding the whole of the frames.
Below is the inner frame which incorporates 3 inner splashiers to keep things clean and add weight.
Everything else is then fixed within and fixed upon from outside.
6 bolts up through 1/2" square tabs fixes the outer frames now painted brown in place.
2 bolts fix each buffer beam now painted red in place.
All painted without masking of course.



During the drawing out of 2 F Fowler Dock Tank. I suddenly thought a wonderful way of making smokeboxes that
are also easy to make and assemble and fix in place. this time with four 2 B.A. allen bolts from underneath.
Plus having done two ash pan Dampers on the Dock Tank over the past week, thought I could incorporate a version on
Asia/Europa 54.

David and Lily.

[dscott]

IN THE END I CHEATED. And did a winning bid on Ebay.
I was the only bidder which just goes to show the problems with the design.



From a different angle. And in front of me is the mass of reverser linkage but HELP it has almost 3 turns of backlash?
From snippets over the years about the Design.
Reeves sent the drawings back so more bits could be converted to sellable Castings.
The use of the Pansy valve gear was hushed up when she won several awards!!!

An ability to make things to Professional drawings often clashes with the ability to do the drawings to what you want.
Martin Evans cheated and married a Draftswoman!!!
A history of non communicating mapped out in the errors of various locomotives!!!

David and Lily.