rrmrd66
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Post by rrmrd66 on Nov 30, 2017 13:16:33 GMT
Afternoon everybody.
It would appear that ME thread nuts (e.g. 1/4"x40tpi) are like hens teeth.
Reading other much older forum posts it would appear that this had been a long term problem
Is there anybody out there who has a present day supplier.
Cheers
Malcolm
PS I have taps and dies from Tracy Tools so I can make my own if pushed. Have already cut the thread for the "bolt" so need nuts!
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Midland
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Post by Midland on Nov 30, 2017 15:56:24 GMT
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rrmrd66
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Post by rrmrd66 on Nov 30, 2017 16:24:43 GMT
Hello D
Not unhelpful at all.
In fact at least one jump ahead of you. I had found the recommended Journeyman's web page earlier on today.
There are several items on the Don Young 5" Hunslet I am building that call for 1/4" x40 tpi threads. Maybe in the '70's ME fastenings were easy to source.
As you will have noted I already have a set of taps and dies ex Tracy tools from the Midlands ME exhibition, so not a big deal to make some nuts up.
I can obtain 7/16" or 0.445" A/F hex bar from M Metals in Darlington so will go that way unless someone can tell me a supplier.
Thanks for your interest.
Cheers
Malcolm
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Post by 92220 on Nov 30, 2017 17:31:53 GMT
Hi Malcolm.
As far as I know, M.E. thread nuts and bolts have never been available commercially because there just isn't the demand. I'm afraid it really is a 'make your own' job! M.E. nuts and bolts are not really needed in most cases anyway. An equivalent to 1/8" x 40 is 5BA which is 0.126" O.D. x 43.1 tpi, and there is nothing below this in M.E. For sizes above 1/8", generally standard metric fine thread nuts and bolts are suitable. Where not, then making the odd one or two specials is the only other way to go. If you are looking to make scale nuts and bolts, then BA sizes cover scale nuts and bolts up to 2" Whit, for 5" gauge. 2" scaled down = 0.177" so either 3BA at 0.161" or 2BA at 0.185", would generally be close enough, with hex A/F adjusted to suit. Anything larger than 2" Whit (fullsize)would generally be used on something other than a nut and bolt, so would almost certainly need more machining than a standard shape a nut or bolt.
Bob
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rrmrd66
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Post by rrmrd66 on Nov 30, 2017 17:43:16 GMT
Hi Bob
Thanks for all that. Very useful information.
Wow! What a lot I have learned since April.
Thanks for your interest.
Cheers
Malcolm
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jma1009
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Post by jma1009 on Dec 1, 2017 0:49:26 GMT
Hi Malcolm,
Yes, you made the bolts yourself then have to make the nuts too! Then you will go on to make all your ME thread union nuts and fittings for the boiler and pipework.
Then you will need to make up fitted bolts for the cylinders to be attached to the frames with a section of non-threaded bolt shank, stainless bolts for the inner dome fixings, superheater wet header etc.
Making nuts and bolts to special sizes and out of special materials is part of making a miniature loco if you do things properly!
Cheers,
Julian
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Post by builder01 on Dec 1, 2017 1:18:47 GMT
Hi Malcolm,
Welcome to model engineering!
David
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rrmrd66
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Post by rrmrd66 on Dec 1, 2017 7:34:12 GMT
Hi Julian and David.
Say no more. I'm on with it.
Thanks for your interest
Malcolm
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isc
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Post by isc on Dec 1, 2017 9:01:41 GMT
If you make your own you can get the right height of nut, commercial nuts in small sizes are often too thin. If need be a reduced hexagon can be used to get a scale looking nut in a tight space with an over size stud. isc
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rrmrd66
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Post by rrmrd66 on Dec 1, 2017 10:11:01 GMT
If you make your own you can get the right height of nut, commercial nuts in small sizes are often too thin. If need be a reduced hexagon can be used to get a scale looking nut in a tight space with an over size stud. isc Hi isc Yes good point. Thanks Cheers Malcolm
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Post by Roger on Dec 1, 2017 18:37:14 GMT
Another alternative is to switch to Metric Fine Threads where you can have M6 x 0.75 or M6 x 0.5 if you want. As far as I can see, the only reason ME threads existed was because there weren't Imperial threads with fine enough pitches. That's not the case under the Metric system. I haven't found the need to use any ME threads so far, and don't envisage that situation changing. Metric threads are unlikely to ever become obsolete. I use Drill Service Horley for all my taps and dies. No connection, just a satisfied customer.
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Post by runner42 on Dec 2, 2017 6:06:46 GMT
Another alternative is to switch to Metric Fine Threads where you can have M6 x 0.75 or M6 x 0.5 if you want. As far as I can see, the only reason ME threads existed was because there weren't Imperial threads with fine enough pitches. That's not the case under the Metric system. I haven't found the need to use any ME threads so far, and don't envisage that situation changing. Metric threads are unlikely to ever become obsolete. I use Drill Service Horley for all my taps and dies. No connection, just a satisfied customer. Hi Roger, isn't it an advantage of ME threads that they have the same TPI irrespective of size so that they are able to be used in assemblies such as the regulator where you are required to screw into two concentric thread forms at the same time? No other thread forms provides this ability. But I agree that metric provides a variety of thread sizes that should satisfy most occurrences and I am replacing BA with metric mainly because I can get them in Stainless Steel. Brian
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jasonb
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Post by jasonb on Dec 2, 2017 7:50:09 GMT
I don't see that switching to metric fine will solve the OP's problem as it is not easy to buy say M6 x 0.5 brass or bronze nuts so you still have to make them unless Roger knows better?
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Post by Roger on Dec 2, 2017 9:19:12 GMT
I don't see that switching to metric fine will solve the OP's problem as it is not easy to buy say M6 x 0.5 brass or bronze nuts so you still have to make them unless Roger knows better? I doubt if you can buy M6 x 0.5 nuts or anything else for that matter. Making these things is easy enough though, especially if you only need one or two. I use Knupfer for any small standard nuts, and I can see that you can buy standard M6 x 0.75 fittings here
To be honest, M6 x 0.5 is probably too fine for most ME applications, 40 TPI is only 0.635mm pitch I don't think most Model Engineers even consider using threads that are not on the drawing. I doubt very much if many are even aware that there are modern alternatives. Maybe that would change if someone published an updated, all Metric, set of drawings for one or two of the most popular locomotives.
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Post by 92220 on Dec 2, 2017 9:25:07 GMT
Anyhow, most of us probably bought our ME taps and dies long before metric was common in UK so why change to metric. I've not seen a metric size anywhere near 1/2" x 40 tpi so if I didn't have a tap and die on the shelf, I'd have to screwcut the thread and I hate screwcutting almost as much as filing.....and only do either when there is no alternative!!
We are getting a bit off topic here. The OP wants to make a 'between centres' boring bar.
Malcolm, why not go on Ebay and look for an adjustable, graduated, insert for your boring bar? I have a number of these and they are not expensive. They often come in carbide tipped versions too. Saves the hastle of making one!!
Bob
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jasonb
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Post by jasonb on Dec 2, 2017 9:59:42 GMT
Oh I thought they were for steam fittings. Agree the Microbore or Rigibore heads are a good idea, funny enough I bought two during the week for about £7.50ea. Though they are metric ones with M8x0.5 thread so 50divs on the nut gives each div of 0.01 depth of cut. They take CCMT 06 type inserts. They still have one listed but may be worth asking for the code number as it also said the ones I bought had 5/16" x 40 thread but the code was clearly metric. www.jurassictools.com/store/search?search=store&phrase=ccmt+06
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Post by 92220 on Dec 2, 2017 10:16:33 GMT
I don't see that switching to metric fine will solve the OP's problem as it is not easy to buy say M6 x 0.5 brass or bronze nuts so you still have to make them unless Roger knows better? I doubt if you can buy M6 x 0.5 nuts or anything else for that matter. Making these things is easy enough though, especially if you only need one or two. I use Knupfer for any small standard nuts, and I can see that you can buy standard M6 x 0.75 fittings here
To be honest, M6 x 0.5 is probably too fine for most ME applications, 40 TPI is only 0.635mm pitch I don't think most Model Engineers even consider using threads that are not on the drawing. I doubt very much if many are even aware that there are modern alternatives. Maybe that would change if someone published an updated, all Metric, set of drawings for one or two of the most popular locomotives. Redrawing a set of loco drawings into metric, sounds a good idea but unfortunately it will never happen. To redraw an old design, in metric would take at least 3 or 4 months, maybe more, full time because all the existing designs are on paper. Transferring to CAD would take ages! Then checking would be a nightmare as the redrawn design could be subject to the current sales laws on being 'fit for purpose', and any errors found after publication could lead to compensation claims. We all know how many errors, some major, that have been found, and reported on here, in almost all published loco designs. UK has followed the US into a major compensation culture and that adds dramatically to costs! That would put the price of a set of drawings way beyond the reach of most model engineers!!
Bob
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rrmrd66
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Post by rrmrd66 on Dec 2, 2017 11:58:44 GMT
What is an OP. I hope it is not "old person".
Actually I think I have caused confusion. It is however good to see everybody chipping in with their advice and comments.
I have initiated two separate threads.
One is in "tools and tooling" regarding a between centres boring bar asking for a copy of an old magazine. Model Engineers Workshop Issue 136 March 2008
The other is in this "general" section asking for a supplier of ME nuts, which I now know is impossible. The nuts are in fact for the valve spindle dog leg/intermediate valve spindle on the Stephenson's valve gear on my Don Young 5" NG Hunslet.
Maybe best if we all leave it at that, but thanks for your interest.
Cheers
Malcolm
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Post by simplyloco on Dec 2, 2017 13:31:54 GMT
What is an OP. I hope it is not "old person". SNIP Malcolm The Original Poster. By the way, why do you 'hope not'? Many of us on here are in that condition! Or is the dreaded PC creeping stealthily on to this forum? John
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rrmrd66
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Post by rrmrd66 on Dec 2, 2017 14:29:01 GMT
Thanks for that simplyloco.
I am of an age that I can remember Granny buying a black and white TV for the Queens coronation (and a bit before that!)
Cheers
M
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