Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Sept 3, 2018 19:29:49 GMT
Very preliminary thoughts but looking to sack the ancient Myford grey monster, actually preferred my ML10, but looking to acquire a suitable replacement.
There are many views but thought, is there something better than a Warco special. I know they are good and within most peoples' budget and I like the Warco kit, my mill is a success for me, so appreciate a few bits of advice please!
D
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,437
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Post by dscott on Sept 4, 2018 0:10:51 GMT
I am very pleased with my new WM18 from Warco which chews through everything I have given it!!
Coming in superbly for £540 plus £150 for a brand new 4 jaw for it is a Raglan 5.
Yes same specification as the latest from Warco with a 26 mm bore spindle on taper roller
bearings. Hardened bed. Power crossfeed. Variable speed etc!!!
But needs painting and moving down to the workshop it is very heavy!
David.
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Post by Roger on Sept 4, 2018 11:34:05 GMT
Hi David,
Here are my personal thoughts for a lathe wish list...
1) Substantially bigger than a Myford is preferable. (Rigidity is a big advantage when parting off)
2) High resolution DROs on both axes are essential. (It's cheap and you won't ever want to be without it once tried)
3) Variable speed drive. (Really useful for parting off. People are intimidated by parting off if the lathe won't stop!)
4) Camlock chuck adaptor. (Can run in either direction, readily available chuck backs and quick to change)
Unless you're going to spend a fortune on a new Toolroom quality lathe, you're left with either an old (and possibly worn out) lathe such as a Colchester or Harrison or a new Chinese one. Personally, I don't think a Boxford is rigid enough, but others will argue differently. Sure, Chinese machines have abysmal quality on many of the things that are unimportant on the Lathe, but they are solidly built with enough material where it matters. You won't get Rolls Royce machines for Ford prices.
We all have different biases so I'm not going to enter into yet another pointless argument. I have used all of the types named here, and my conclusions are based on that experience.
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Post by RGR 60130 on Sept 4, 2018 21:50:50 GMT
I'm still very happy with my Myford 254S after several years.
Reg
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,437
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Post by dscott on Sept 5, 2018 0:33:28 GMT
Having got one the more I check the more the 254 222 (sorry it was named after Myfords Phone number!)
Was based upon the Raglan! Myfords took over but let a super machine vanish. Expensive but having
the headstock and bed cast as one makes it very rigid. The beds guideways can be unbolted every 50
years and ground on any guillotine blade grinding machine and bolted back.
The quality is such that I would love 2 of them and leave the second with all the covers off just
to show this. You can tell I love machinery!
David.
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rrmrd66
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 339 
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Post by rrmrd66 on Sept 5, 2018 7:05:07 GMT
Hello David
In general I agree with Roger.
As you will know from an earlier post in this section I am not that big a fan of Warco products (admittedly a Milling machine).
I replaced my 60 year old Myford 7 with a fully reconditioned Super 7, from Myford, with cross feed and variable speed. About £4k and have not regretted it. I find Myford in Mytholmroyd OK (normal disclaimers).
I got given (for free) a Harrison M300 which is worn out and so can only be used realistically for "hogging out", but the large internal spindle bore is a god send compared to the Myford.
I do a part time voluntary job with a Colchester Student, which must be 40-50 years old, and this is still very good.
Thus I would recommend to be patient,, ask around, and go for a good condition UK built Harrison or Colchester ( they were made latterly in the same factory I believe).
The excellent private contractor, that Warco sent to sort out my milling machine, tells me that all the schools and colleges are getting rid of their M300s/Students lathes as our snowflake grandchildren want 3d printing in high Health and Safety regimes. So there are lots on the market (he says).
Good luck anyway. I am sure you will find something that fits your needs.
Regards
Malcolm
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Post by Nigel Bennett on Sept 5, 2018 13:27:56 GMT
Roger remarked that a Boxford is "not rigid enough" - but remember that the X10 series of Boxfords (280, 330, STS, etc...) are pretty good and come with the D1-3" Camlock spindles. I have a 280 and I'm very happy with it. Highly underrated lathe and there are couple on eBay at the moment.
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Post by ettingtonliam on Sept 5, 2018 13:55:39 GMT
Roger remarked that a Boxford is "not rigid enough" - but remember that the X10 series of Boxfords (280, 330, STS, etc...) are pretty good and come with the D1-3" Camlock spindles. I have a 280 and I'm very happy with it. Highly underrated lathe and there are couple on eBay at the moment. Similar remarks for the last of the Denfords, the 280 Synchro. Decent capacity, D1-3 spindle. 26mm spindle bore, solidly built, variable speed and even more underrated then the equivalent Boxford. I got mine from a well known dealer fully tooled (3 jaw, 4 jaw, faceplate, fixed steady, moving steady, tailstock chuck )for about 1K, delivered to my door. Pay a dealer that for a Myford and its likely to be worn out crap. Most of the Denfords went to schools, and the later ones barely got much chance to be used before machining went off the curriculum. What the original poster doesn't say is what sort of work he wants to do on his new lathe. |
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Post by simplyloco on Sept 5, 2018 14:53:01 GMT
What the original poster doesn't say is what sort of work he wants to do on his new lathe. David just wants to make lots of piston rings...  |
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Post by ettingtonliam on Sept 5, 2018 15:38:42 GMT
Oh, so a Chester Conquest will fill the bill then?
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Sept 5, 2018 19:43:42 GMT
Hi All
David wants to make 5" locos and the like and I think I will stick with slide valves!!
Seriously, thanks Roger for your advice and also the other contributions. Will troll around ebay for some of the older ones suggested. Of two minds about any one the Chinese jobs, they are all the same just different colours these days depending who is selling them. My Warco mill has been good for me.
Anyway will continue to contemplate, get my old one raedy for disposal and work on the SWMBO!!
Thanks All
D
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Post by Roger on Sept 5, 2018 20:55:13 GMT
Hi All David wants to make 5" locos and the like and I think I will stick with slide valves!! Seriously, thanks Roger for your advice and also the other contributions. Will troll around ebay for some of the older ones suggested. Of two minds about any one the Chinese jobs, they are all the same just different colours these days depending who is selling them. My Warco mill has been good for me. Anyway will continue to contemplate, get my old one raedy for disposal and work on the SWMBO!! Thanks All D By all means pop over and spend an afternoon machining bits and pieces on the Warco and see if you like it. Come and part off a piece of 25mm Silver Steel under power if you want to see what it can do. |
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milky
Seasoned Member
Posts: 120
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Post by milky on Sept 7, 2018 14:31:45 GMT
Ideally settle on few models you'd consider going to look at, possibly based on comments in this thread.
Consider what space you have use for this lathe or are willing to re-purpose
Look around for a forum or group that covers your chosen models, Yahoo, Mig Welding (has a lathe section) to gain an insight to problems with parts or particular lathes
There are also You tube clips of rebuilds or issue's that may have been resolved.
If your not in a hurry, I'd spend your time looking on Gumtree, Ebay, Home Workshop or bidspotter for local auctions.
I'd be wary of any lathe you can't see running (at plenty of different speeds) or unable to test, take a few rags and look below the grime if required.
Don't rule out 3 phase lathes as running things with an inverter is becoming more commonplace and easier to achieve.
Really take into consideration what comes with the lathe, I recently acquired an early 1970's Harrison M300 in pretty good condition but it didn't have any steady's with it.
A phone call to Heckmondwike in Yorkshire reveals that a Fixed Steady £354, Travelling £202, this obviously holds up the value of second hand items. (If anyone has any ? which they like to sell...)
If it comes with a functioning DRO thats worth around £350 - £500 to purchase(let alone time to fit)
It will come as no surprise that decent chucks cost a lot. What will is the cost of replacement jaws if available, so again take time to look at these in detail for wear/ problems
Going from 2mt on the myford to possibly 3mt on a future lathe will again mean tools coming with the new lathe really add value.
Another factor is moving a lathe, some can be split down others can't easily, the Harrison cost me £200 to get it moved 50miles on a wagon with a Hiab
A second set of eyes with some experience is also useful, if you know someone willing to help you.
Finally I looked for many months to find the milling machine I wanted, in the end a wanted advert on Home Workshop led me to a nice Elliott Omnimill.
Philip
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Sept 8, 2018 22:29:07 GMT
Roger
As always very generous and informative. I have followed your advice so far and got better. Yes, once the you who, is on board I will do that. I have to say that "SL" whispered in her ear David's lathe is crap and she is now scheduling it rather than no bloody way. Maybe a bit of glass on the finger might get me there!
D
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Sept 20, 2018 12:50:16 GMT
Well chaps, many thanks for all your comments. An opportunity presented itself to get a Sieg SC4 HiTorque lathe with loads of extras included quick change tool posts, two other chucks and ER32 chuck and about 20 collects at something less that half the new price and it is 6 months old. Went for it!!!!
D
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Sept 27, 2018 13:02:08 GMT
Well chaps, many thanks for all your comments. An opportunity presented itself to get a Sieg SC4 HiTorque lathe with loads of extras included quick change tool posts, two other chucks and ER32 chuck and about 20 collects at something less that half the new price and it is 6 months old. Went for it!!!! D Good choice. You won't regret it. A little bigger than an ML7 and a lot more robust. Only the topslide is a bit suboptimal in my experience with it, but not a dealbreaker. The variable speed motor is excellent and a huge advance over gear drive, and although the carriage index is a bit strange (on mine at least), if you fit it with a proper DRO (NOT the mickeymouse Sieg offerings) you won't care about that. The power feed on X and Z axes is very nice too. You won't expect Myford quality of manufacturing at Chinese prices, and a bit of hand-fettling might improve some peripherals, (I had to do a bit of work on the tailstock I recall) but I would say that the bits that really matter (e.g. the bed, the spindle and the drive) it is very good lathe indeed. As with any lathe, you will always improve it by mounting it on a sturdy and rigid stand. HTH Gary |
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Sept 27, 2018 13:26:09 GMT
Hi Gary
Thanks for your comments. Yes I think a DRO is called for and if I don't get one I will be on the carpet up in front of Roger for severe admonishment. The cross slide hand is held on with a bloody great nut and I have banged my knuckles on it a few times already. And I managed to break the intermediate spindle that holds the gears while trying to turn a thread. Tightened up the wrong bit at the wrong time. Axminster, bless them, sold me a spare. The manual is awful but as I am a complete novice I am learning slowly. Lots of fun!!!
David
The tailstock locking handle is operated at 90 degrees to the Myford one. Still,wonder why it is jammed, . . . doh!!!
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Sept 27, 2018 18:01:32 GMT
Hi Gary Thanks for your comments. Yes I think a DRO is called for and if I don't get one I will be on the carpet up in front of Roger for severe admonishment. The cross slide hand is held on with a bloody great nut and I have banged my knuckles on it a few times already. And I managed to break the intermediate spindle that holds the gears while trying to turn a thread. Tightened up the wrong bit at the wrong time. Axminster, bless them, sold me a spare. The manual is awful but as I am a complete novice I am learning slowly. Lots of fun!!! David The tailstock locking handle is operated at 90 degrees to the Myford one. Still,wonder why it is jammed, . . . doh!!! Hi David Trying to imagine what a cross-slide hand might be, when I realised it must be a figment of your spoiling chequer! My handles are held on with normal-size nyloks, you might want to change yours. The cross-slide handle also had a very pointy finger grip that stabbed me in the head several times after getting bits from the cupboard below, so that came in for surgery too, nothing difficult. Second to the DRO, the most useful accessory by far was the quick-change tool post; not the Seig one which looked pretty terrible, but the sort that is common on Myfords with the W-shaped indexing slide. It only needed a replacement stud making for the securing nut. The manual is indeed terrible, but at least the exploded diagram helps you put back any bits you have taken apart for examination... Best wishes Gary |
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Post by goldstar31 on Sept 28, 2018 9:18:15 GMT
Just an observation but I have a SiegC4 which is Axminster's 2007 offering with a very peculiar pair of DRO's as standard. I can't find the right batteries- but heigh ho, what does one expect for £350?
I bought it to live 'indoors' so that my aged bones got some comfort. So I bought a a faceplate, a 4 jaw independent, a 4 jaw SC and an adapter to take Myford thread stuff( which one does) So filled with waning enthusiasm at times, I spent about £350 or so on a Vertical Mill attachment which all in all allows me to interchange No2 and No3 Morse Taper 'swag'
Whether others agree or not, I have rather useful set up-- in the WARM
Norman
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Post by ettingtonliam on Sept 28, 2018 9:50:33 GMT
Norman
Good to see you posting - hope you are well. I quite agree with what you've done, I did the same myself a number of years ago with a generic Chinese 7x12 lathe which lived on a trolley kept in the under stairs cupboard and could be wheeled out when needed.
Richard
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