|
|
Post by suctionhose on Aug 1, 2021 0:29:00 GMT
Imperial Dimensions? Is that the future?
|
|
|
|
Post by masahiraoka on Aug 1, 2021 5:38:08 GMT
No but when you’re working from original full size drawings in imperial at 1/16 scale unfortunately you have no option
|
|
|
|
Post by suctionhose on Aug 1, 2021 7:51:23 GMT
Not trying to be a smart-arse but that would seem unfortunate for making the information "available to model engineers everwhere", especially future generations.
As the 2D drawings are computer generated couldn't the units be changed? Metric to 2 decimal places is conventional. Just thought it would have wider appeal, that's all.
|
|
|
|
Post by steamer5 on Aug 1, 2021 9:07:16 GMT
Hi Martyn, Those are very nice drawings! I think it was about 20 years ago there was an Excel spreadsheet article in the Australian Model Engineer, it was available on the AME website as a download. I’ve been using it to do the drawings for K1. Just checked it’s still available…. www.ameng.com.au/model_engineering_downloads.htm I’ve modified my version & have a table full size measurements in 1/32” incidents to 12” , with another column to add the foot / feet , combines them to give you either metric or decimal imperial. It uses the gauge of the original & the gauge of the model required & spits out the number required. If you would like a copy let me know. Pretty sure your CAD program should be able to convert imperial to metric with out much of a problem. I just ask my boys for help when I get stuck with CAD just have to get the time zone right! Cheers Kerrin |
|
|
|
Post by masahiraoka on Aug 1, 2021 10:39:01 GMT
Ross and Kerin
thanks for your observations.
my comment was only meant to indicate that we had to design the CAD model in imperial for the reasons I mentioned earlier but you’re both right it be easy for the CAD s/w to produce the drawings in metric. This of course would produce some very odd numbers but with DROs on machine tools they would not be impossible to work with.
Ciao Martyn
|
|
|
|
Post by 92220 on Aug 2, 2021 8:19:55 GMT
No but when you’re working from original full size drawings in imperial at 1/16 scale unfortunately you have no option Hi Martyn. Doesn't your CAD program have the facility to dimension in both metric and imperial. My AutocadLT dimensions in metric with the imperial in brackets behind, on the same dimension line. I have it set to put metric first, but it will also make imperial the main. I really like, and follow your 3D drawing. When I was a contract design draughtsman, I had my own full Autocad2004 and equipment, but the Autocad went out of date and Autodesk wouldn't renew the authentication code because of the age of the program, to I had to get the LT version, which doesn't have 3D. Bob. |
|
|
|
Post by masahiraoka on Aug 2, 2021 10:26:01 GMT
Bob
yes our CAD package certianly does have the option but at the moment it's about designing the loco and this is infinitely easier in imperial because we're scaling imperial to 1/16 for a 3 1/2 inch gauge scale loco.
but we will eventual produce drawings for 5 inch and 7 1/4 inch gauge and the 2D draings for model engineers could easily be produced in metric if the model engineers want
ciao Martyn
|
|
|
|
Post by greenbat on Aug 2, 2021 15:32:48 GMT
Those drawings are lovely! I wish some of the rubbish I have to deal with at work was as good. Personally I think anyone building a UK or colonies loco should damn well learn imperial for the full experience...  Would the models for 3d printing the patterns be made available as well as drawings? Looking forward to seeing more. No greater joy than seeing someone massively overachieving just for the sheer fun of it. |
|
|
|
Post by masahiraoka on Aug 2, 2021 17:30:07 GMT
Thank you for the compliment on the quality of our work.
We’re certainly pleased with the way the design is evolving the quality and detail of which will enable us to scale it to any practical gauge.
In order to protect the IP, the result of the many many man hours of work, we won’t be making the 3D models available rather we’ll be making the 3D printed or cast components available to model engineers in a similar fashion to Adam Cros excellent pieces.
should be posting more photos of the construction of the prototype soon.
ciao Martyn
|
|
|
|
Post by Doug on Aug 5, 2021 13:04:46 GMT
Any idea how long till you have the drawings released? Or is this all dependent on a full build of the prototype?
Regards Doug
|
|
|
|
Post by andyhigham on Aug 5, 2021 14:30:13 GMT
I would be wary of designing anything that uses imperial stock, it is becoming rarer and in the near future will be non existent.
Even the good ol, USofA will become fully metric
|
|
twombo
Seasoned Member
Posts: 120 
|
Post by twombo on Aug 6, 2021 1:47:14 GMT
Selecting fasteners is probably the most tedious task. All my Taps, dies and drills “Kit” are primarily imperial, so making a list of sizes, most appropriate to the scale, is my first priority. I use UNC and UNF, as they are most readily available. I prefer. HSS over carbon Steel to reduce “throwing tools aboit!
I am mostly working in 21/2” gauge 17/32” scale. There are not hat many sizes needed in each Scale. I keep a complete listing for each… and spares! , ideally, it it’s own little storage box. spanners and drivers too! I find that delays looking for the needed tackle, is directly proportional to, Pardon me, “cock ups”!
Martyn 31/2 scale is looking very enticing. A Bulleid strikes my Fancy! So Many choices and so little time!
I eagerly await your next episode! I love your “locomotive that was never built”. A Phantom, but a logical extension from the original design. Encompassing shortcomings never addressed!. engineers, Engineer”!
Mick
|
|
|
|
Post by masahiraoka on Aug 6, 2021 6:16:00 GMT
Doug
the release of the drawings and components is still a couple of years away - we want to complete the build of the prototype so we can check the drawings and improve the design with respect to manufacturability of the components and buildability of the loco for model engineers.
Andy
we're concious of not specifiying imperial stock for exactly the reason you state and will utilise a range of metric thickness plates etc.
Mick
with re the phantom loco - well if the A1 and P2 Steam Loco trusts can do it then so should us model engineers! they also have used the latest CAD technology to improve their designs and simplify their manufacture - We're only doing the same thing. I think being too purist about old school model engineering techniques is missing the whole philosophy of engineering ie to use the latest technology to come up with the simplest, safest and most effective design.
ciao Martyn
|
|
twombo
Seasoned Member
Posts: 120
|
Post by twombo on Aug 6, 2021 6:51:55 GMT
Selecting fasteners is probably the most tedious task. All my Taps, dies and drills “Kit” are primarily imperial, so making a list of sizes, most appropriate to the scale, is my first priority. I use UNC and UNF, as they are most readily available. I prefer. HSS over carbon Steel to reduce “throwing tools aboit!
I am mostly working in 21/2” gauge 17/32” scale. There are not hat many sizes needed in each Scale. I keep a complete listing for each… and spares! , ideally, it it’s own little storage box. spanners and drivers too! I find that delays looking for the needed tackle, is directly proportional to, Pardon me, “cock ups”!
Martyn 31/2 scale is looking very enticing. A Bulleid strikes my Fancy! So Many choices and so little time!
I eagerly await your next episode! I love your “locomotive that was never built”. A Phantom, but a logical extension from the original design. Encompassing shortcomings never addressed!. engineers, Engineer”!
Mick
|
|
|
|
Post by steamer5 on Aug 6, 2021 7:54:19 GMT
Hi Mick,
One of the guys here in NZ designed an engine called The Phantom....no particular engine 7 1/4" gauge, built to pull passenger's. There is or was a construction book, a friend of mine built one to the words in collaboration with the author to make sure the book worked. There are quite a few up & down the country.....almost no 2 look a like! They steam well & pull great! Spent a happy hour or two driving a couple of them.
Cheers Kerrin
|
|
|
|
Post by masahiraoka on Aug 9, 2021 4:35:28 GMT
Phil has been doing some further work on the cab fittings and back head   |
|
|
|
Post by masahiraoka on Aug 15, 2021 5:56:36 GMT
In the last week or so Phil has enjoyed getting back to the pure design process this time for the tender. As always it involves lots of research on the full size drawings and consideration of what will be relatively simple to manufacture and build. here is his progress so far on the frames. ciao Martyn   |
|
|
|
Post by runner42 on Aug 16, 2021 0:03:03 GMT
Excuse me if I have misunderstood your objectives, but in the earlier stages of posting you combined the 3D CAD requirements with 3D printing and produced some parts that were to be used directly or for the preparation of casting patterns, to produce a prototype to prove the 3D CAD design. Is this still a feature of your plan?
Brian
|
|
|
|
Post by masahiraoka on Aug 16, 2021 10:56:26 GMT
Brian
You’ve got our plan in a nutshell. A detailed 3D CAD design leading to modern manufacturing techniques such as 3D printing directly in metal or patterns for casting or 2D profile cutting of flat parts leading in turn to the building of a prototype to check the design.
Martyn
|
|
|
|
Post by terrier060 on Aug 19, 2021 19:30:35 GMT
Won't that be horrendously expensive? I love the idea of printing directly into metal. It would make building not only fantastically accurate, but take all the slog out of it and the construction would become an assembly of finished parts.
Something I only dream about after a good night at the pub!
|
|
