Just William (3.5 gauge 2-6-2)

[JonL]

I've realised that although the Britannia got its own thread, I have been a little reluctant to create a thread for my William. This is primarily because I've only finished off someone else's work, and also to be perfectly honest I've felt a bit intimidated by the excellent workmanship of the other forum members. Ignorance was bliss.

I've decided to start one as a couple of things have happened:

1) I've realised that it was not as complete as I thought. I ended up doing a lot of rework, and commissioning the boiler was not as straightforward as I naively expected.

2) a few people have commented that I should be documenting what I'm doing.

3) My many questions are getting asked in the wrong places, clogging up other people's threads. As a result, if I collate them here those who are here to see proper engineering can ignore this.


A bit of background, I purchased the locomotive on eBay as a result of a bereavement. The owners father said he had made a few traction engines (which I saw first hand around their home, beautiful things indeed) but the William was his first locomotive. He had taken his efforts along to his local model Engineering society in South Wales and unbelievably was mocked for his amateur efforts. He took it home, put it under the stairs and it lived there until he died. I'm still in contact with his daughter and I've been sending her regular updates, which she appears to be delighted with.

The current state of play is the boiler certificate has now been achieved, and once the last few niggles are sorted it will be getting painted. William was broadly based on the LNER V1, so I think I'll be painting it as such as I don't have any urge to paint it an unusual colour.

Today I have for the nth time stripped out the water pump, reseated and replaced the balls, cleaned the pipework throughout, replaced the stuff gland for an o-ring arrangement, fitting an extra o-ring groove and removed a clack I put in just after the water supply tank to assist with reducing backflow (but was I suspect just impeding take up of water). On the last air test it appeared to be pumping water out of the bypass and also into the boiler. I'm not going to get too excited though, and it's done this before only to fail a short way into the run. It appears to actually pump air backwards into the water supply tank. For this reason I thought improving the ram sealing was be a good port of call as I can't think of any other places other than unions that it might be coming in.

I will try to keep this thread updated, with pictures as someone has requested! It just sometimes feels like walking into the Louvre with something I've made out of dried macaroni and poster paint.

[stevep]

We will await your updates with great interest Nobby.

[jo479]

I bought an engine that had been half built, stood for ten yearsa fter the death of the builder, who by repute had built all manner of Brittanias, Flying Scotsman etc, I have never had such a load of crap in my life, I had to make new pistons, rings, crossheads and the bores were .020" different to each other, the wheels weren't properly quartered, the crank webs were loose, coupling rods needed rebushing, the inner dome came apart when I pressure tested it, it taught me a lesson, don't buy somebody else's work if it's not finished and running, forget it, fortunately I did not pay a lot of momey for it, I offered a price to allow a rebuild, still, never again.
( I can only think that the builder had had the news that he was on his way out and stated rushing it)

[simplyloco]

Aug 31, 2020 17:31:40 GMT jo479 said:

I bought an engine that had been half built, stood for ten yearsa fter the death of the builder, who by repute had built all manner of Brittanias, Flying Scotsman etc, I have never had such a load of crap in my life, I had to make new pistons, rings, crossheads and the bores were .020" different to each other, the wheels weren't properly quartered, the crank webs were loose, coupling rods needed rebushing, the inner dome came apart when I pressure tested it, it taught me a lesson, don't buy somebody else's work if it's not finished and running, forget it, fortunately I did not pay a lot of momey for it, I offered a price to allow a rebuild, still, never again.
( I can only think that the builder had had the news that he was on his way out and stated rushing it)

That happened to me with the first engine, a part built 3.5" Stirling. I moved it on very quickly! I have to say that I was very lucky with my current Stirling!
John

[JonL]

My only problem so far really has been some of the soldering has been a bit messy (but solid) and some of the tolerances in the valve gear were a bit loose. I've since remade the die blocks within the expansion links, the valve rods and a few other bushes here and there. I'm aware I don't want to take all the slack away but some were quite loose.

Here are some photos to bring you up to speed:


As she stands at the moment. Cosmetically shabby but getting there mechanically. Spot my legs at the bottom of the photo, one is a little skinnier than the other...



On the spit in the workshop while I try to figure out the axle pump issues. I have a workbench for each locomotive, this is Jamie (the locomotive is named after my Father).

You may have spotted that my automatic drain cocks face each other, originally they both faced forward but they were very exposed and really looked like it would be snapped off at the slightest wrong move. I plan to make a guard. Incidentally they seem to work a treat. This photo also reminds me I need to make some cylinder cleading.



Here she is while the boiler was off. I gave it to the tester to take away so he could use an endoscope to give it a really good visual before we decided if it was worth perservering with. He gave it the green light. It's a fairly similar size to my Brit, but obviously the Brit also drags a tender along for the ride. I'm really glad I got the William as it has made me rush the work I was doing on the Britannia less. I now want the Britannia to be a really polished lomotive, as good as I can muster, while the William is the workhorse to give me my steam rush whilst I work. I've learned loads, and have a better idea of what I want the Britannia to incorporate.


One of the early challenges. When it arrived it had a screw sheared off in the regulator bush. I had to butcher the bush in order to get to the thread to undo it, but it did mean I ended up making my own bush (with the experience gained another bonus). There were lots of little gotchas like this. At first glance all looked well, but dive a little deeper and rework required.



And a photo of how she turned up in November last year. Very tarnished and dusty from lurking under the stairs for many yearsm, but otherwise a good solid starting point for a novice. The roof isn't attached here, I am either going to hinge it or affix it with magnets.



Finally, I know it is a freelance but I plan to paint it as above, BR black with lining. I didn't feel confident enough to try lining before but I think I'm getting there. If it all goes wrong I'll start again, and if I really can't do it she will go unlined.

Thanks for bearing with me, hopefully that fills in the gaps.

[coniston]

Keep at it Nobby, as you've already found out this is a challenging, frustrating but most of all rewarding hobby. Don't get too worried about tight fits and tolerances, steam locomotives need a good bit of clearance for everything to work. There are many worn out locos running very reliably so a bit of play never hurt anyone, more room for the oil. Every mistake is a lesson learned that wont be forgotten and more experience that you can pass onto others new to the hobby, soon you'll be one of the club experts.

Chris D

[mbrown]

It will look fantastic in lined BR Black! And you can get transfers for the grey, yellow and red lining so it shouldn't be too hard.

Malcolm

[philh1aa]

That's a really nice head start you have there.

Please can I ask a question about the performance of William to anybody out there. I am currently building Rob Roy and I have the construction book for both Rob Roy and William. What is a well built William capable of in terms of passenger numbers (approximately)? The reason for asking is that I have quite a pile of castings that could build something like a William.

[stevep]

Had William been published when I decided to build Rob Roy (and if I had known better), I think I would have gone for William.

Rob Roy is a great little engine, but as an 0-6-0, the boiler is not that big, and whilst I have pulled 4 adults, it's not something you would want to do very often, and keeping steam pressure is always a challenge - even with just me behind it.

IMHO, I think the bigger boiler of William would make things just that bit easier.

[philh1aa]

Thanks for that Steve - very helpful. I am definitely going to try and complete Rob Roy because I started it in 1977!!! To be fair, I didn't do anything on it since the mid 80s and many of the parts have been made, rusted, scrapped and made again - so I am determined to get the stupid little engine working.

However, I acquired a set of castings that could be adapted to build quite a few of the 3 1/2" gauge engines (many of them seem to use the same or very similar castings). Hopefully Nobby will get his William running soon and that might steer me towards another tank engine?

Phil H

[David]

Keep going Nobby! It can't be any worse than my red loco which has suffered terribly under my ownership (and the previous owner's).

Someone at my club pointed and laughed at the valve rods that had reinforcing plates fitted where they bend over the front axle. Then I had to tell him I'd put them on because at the time I made the rods I didn't know 15% silver solder didn't work with steel and they broke in half. These are normally hidden between the frames and behind the side tanks. But the side tanks have been off all year because I got sick of taking them off to make it easier to lump around for the constant 'fixing' it has required.

The mistakes I've made and the awful 'workmanship' I've inflicted on that loco are beyond belief. I mean, the front wheel tyres are screwed to the wheel castings through the treads because I got sick of them falling off! I'm not sure I'm actually responsible for the slack fit there, I think the wheels and tyres were cobbled together from things lying around in someone's else shed to get it going. I had to rebore an eccentric strap because the first time I did it (one of my first real jobs on a lathe) I hit 'size' with unmachined casting surface still around about 25% of the bore. I put it on and ran it that way for years until I finally fixed it during a major overhaul a few years ago.

Most of us are not great builders and I'm surprised anyone mocks the efforts of others. This isn't an easy hobby for most of us! I don't laugh at people because they can't write software, and I don't laugh at people because their model engineering efforts are not museum pieces. At least they tried.

[timb]

Looks like there is a very nice loco waiting to emerge from that. A bit of time and patience is all it needs.
Good luck Nobby I am sure you will get there.

Tim

[millman]

Philh1aa, I can beat you on a Rob Roy by 5 years, 1972 was when I started mine at the tender age of 19. As I gained experience earlier bits were scrapped and replaced with better, more accurate pieces. It must be a bit like grandads broom, three new handles and four new heads, I think the eccentrics are most probably the only original pieces. It is my intention to stop faffing around with it and get it finished before it is fifty and I am seventy years old. I would imagine I must have built this loco about five times over, I wish I had kept all the scrapped pieces now but at the time they were chucked in the bin

[philh1aa]

Millman,

The question is what is its status now? Mine is rolling chassis with quartered wheels, coupling rods and conn rods. I also have the cylinder sets machined but no ports drilled.

I don't think any of my parts are original but many of the old parts are cut up and in my 'steel' bin - in various states of rust finish.

Like SteveP, if I had my time again, I would have probably built William because it is obviously bigger and freelance. I have been guilty of wasting a lot of time on Rob Roy by trying to copy the details from the real engine photographs and it is a very tough habit to break.

[millman]

Phil,
Mine is in a similar state, rolling chassis with all valve gear bits made but not assembled. I have thought many times about cutting my losses and doing a William, a much better looking engine in my opinion, maybe when Rob Roy is finished I shall build one. The current plan is to get all domestic duties out of the way and really push on with Rob Roy this winter. If I can get it running on air that will be enough to spur me onto finish it.

[JonL]

Today I had a great deal of learning with my locomotive. Despite it now working fine on the bench my bloody axle pump is still not working on track! However the hand pump was easily able to keep up so I pressed on with the ability to drop the grate being kept close at hand should that means of adding water fail. The axle pump is really becoming quite a bugbear. More bench trials under steam required I think to find exactly where the issue lies.

The first run of the day was a very humbling learning experience. Previously rattling out laps with a sweet pea made me think I at least had a bit of an idea what I was doing. How wrong I was! I tried accepting the advice of a well meaning bystander, whom I assumed knew what he was on about, turns out he didn't (didn't actually have a loco, was just guessing) and he gave me some real bum-steers resulting in a few embarrasing steam raising failures midway round. Another more knowledgeable chap stepped in and gave me some better guidance and before we knew it I was flying around, multiple laps and still lifting the safeties as I came to a rest, firing and hand pumping on the fly! I was very pleased, it feels like today was the first proper run. Early on we noticed that she wasn't pulling very evenly, it turns out the eccentric crank had been knocked in transit severely reducing the travel. Setting it by eye sufficed for the day, but now she is home I can sort her out properly.

I ended up having one more lap where no matter how much steam I raised it just wouldn't fly, it turns out my snifting valve had stuck open, so a good time to come in. A fantastic day.

[smallbrother]

Decent progress there and a great photo!

Very strange with the axle pump. I have always found if they pump cold they pump under steam, if there is a leak in the system you quickly see where it is.

Think I have said it before but I try and get in a routine on any particular track, firing and watering at certain fixed points.

Pete.

[stevep]

Well done Nobby.

Like Pete, I think there is something wrong with your axle pump, because they are a bit binary - they either work or don't. If yours doesn't, there is something fundamentally wrong, which I am guess is in the piping.

[JonL]

I suspect it has an air leak somewhere, sucking in air rather than water, as all the clacks seem to be working perfectly.

[smallbrother]

Sept 6, 2020 12:28:13 GMT JonL said:

I suspect it has an air leak somewhere, sucking in air rather than water, as all the clacks seem to be working perfectly.

If there was a leak, wouldn't the pressure cause water to spray out visibly?

Pete.