Winson Britannia advice wheel size

[robgreenwood2018]

Good evening to you all,

I have recently bought a Winson Britannia Kit, I’ve wanted one of these for many many years, I would of liked the modelworks one but sadly couldn’t find one.

Anyway I’m very pleased with the engine, I know they have a number of issues which I will hopefully resolve as I build her.

My question is, I have just read a note which came with the kit that says that all the wheels need to be turned down because the flange isn’t 
Large enough and it has a high risk of falling off the track.

The model is part built, if this was the case I would have to remove them all.

Is this true? Can anyone point me towards someone who can help me?

Thanks you all very much 

Stay safe! 

rob

[oldnorton]

If the wheels are already turned, as you imply, then check the profile of tread and flange against the accepted UK 5" track standard, which are those from GL5. This link will hopefully show the page 2ebc4dff-5c4b-4001-aa30-16df8083dcc4.filesusr.com/ugd/fbc8da_6b5c3530b59e4b64abc6bcf8f216c26e.pdf

Perhaps if you cut a template (female) to the desired standard and offer this up to the treads. I think you will have to invert the engine.

Norm

[robgreenwood2018]

Thank you for your fast reply.

I’m unsure if they have been turned by the last owner. I will cut out the template and check this.

Thank you very much

[barlowworks]

Also check out John Johnson's Britannia builders build diary britanniabuilder.com/

Mike

[robgreenwood2018]

Hello,

Thanks for your reply. I have done as you suggested and cut out the template. It still looks like they are slightly smaller. I will update with a photo in a few moments,

It seems the profile is 4/32” instead of 5/32”.

Photo to follow once I can reduce the size,

[robgreenwood2018]

Images as mentioned 

[robgreenwood2018]

[robgreenwood2018]

[oldnorton]

Hi Rob

Well done getting the engine upside down!

Looking at the last picture it does seem as if the wheel profile might be a bit non-standard. It looks flat and not coned, and the flange is perhaps not as high and a tad over-wide. I am sorry I don't have a photo of mine that offers a comparison. Check where an exact 5" sits across a pair of wheels (digital callipers) and also check the back-to-back dimension. Refer to the GL5 diagrams. Doug Hewson did report that the Winson treads were non-standard and would not stay on the tracks.

The question is, is it worth the effort of reprofiling the treads? It may run ok on most raised level tracks, but if you want to do ground level running over sets of points, and quite a lot of it, then it will be worth doing. All the motion off, springs off and the axles will come out with the axle blocks and bearings still fitted. The axles will mount in the lathe between centres. Yes they will end up being 1/16" smaller in diameter on the treads but that is not an issue. If you have not done it before then search the web for people's descriptions of their technique, there have been articles in ME no doubt and probably some discussion on here. When done thoroughly wash out the ball bearings with solvent and a syringe and check that they run ok when dry, then refill with grease.

Norm

[JonL]

Agree with Norm, if your lathe has the throw on it then don't try to seperate them, turn between centres.

In my humble (and not very experienced) opinion, they do look like they would benefit from the reprofiling, but as I said my experience is limited.

[robgreenwood2018]

Thank you both once again, it’s nice to know I’m not alone and can get advice when needed.

I doubt I will run the engine on the ground but I don’t want to be restricted,

I’m still currently looking for a lathe, I wouldn’t have the skill or courage to do this myself.

Do you any recommendations on who I could pay to help me with this?

Kind regards

Rob

[flyingfox]

Greetings Rob, I have been running over ground level tracks for years with non tapered wheel tread, and it has never been an issue. On full size the wheel treads are indeed tapered, BUT, the track is also inclined inward to help centralising the wheelset when running. I have never seen a miniature railway with this feature.
regards
Brian

[robgreenwood2018]

Nov 12, 2020 12:21:49 GMT flyingfox said:

Greetings Rob, I have been running over ground level tracks for years with non tapered wheel tread, and it has never been an issue. On full size the wheel treads are indeed tapered, BUT, the track is also inclined inward to help centralising the wheelset when running. I have never seen a miniature railway with this feature.
regards
Brian

Thank you, that is reassuring to hear!

Thank you for replying

[Jim]

Hi Rob,

My experience is the same as Brian's. My Britannia's wheels are  6.5" tread diameter, with a flange depth of .187" or 5mm.

From the photos you have posted the wheels look little different from those on Boadicea. You'll always find lots of views and opinions but in the end it all boils down to your own preferences and what you feel comfortable with along with what is common practice within your club.

Jim