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Post by Roger on Aug 18, 2021 7:08:44 GMT
Agreed. I owned a black MR2 GT T-Bar: just 158 HP but I chased a 911 right through the Elan Valley and I kept up! Just... When I eventually owned a 911 Carrera 2 S I was afraid of crashing it so never really had any fun! The most fun I had on the road didn't involve a car. Until you've ridden a well designed motorbike along country lanes or a mountain road, you haven't lived. You are one with the machine, you are part of the bike. Only two motorbikes I've ridden fall into this category.... A 1978 750cc Triumph Bonneville and an 'N' reg Honda 400/4. I did have a few laughs on Sunday mornings on the M40 between Oxford and M25 Junction. I'd plod along keeping an eye on my mirror waiting for a boy racer in his Porche. As soon as he drew level, throttle to the stop, turbo boost up to max and I disappeared.... I had a Honda CX650tc, they never stood a chance I couldn't agree more. The performance of a large motorcycle is so far above everything except the most exotic supercar, everything seems gutless in comparison. I was once a passenger in a Nissan Skyline, which was an absolute beast. Fast as it was, a superbike would leave it in the dust. These days I'm not interested in that sort of crazy performance, either in a bike or car. Sooner or later you're going to get pulled over or come to grief. I've had enough close calls, even though I was nowhere near as reckless as some of my friends, one of which paid the ultimate price. Driving too fast for the conditions is a mugs game, but some never learn. Fortunately I did, and I'm here to tell the tale.
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Post by runner42 on Aug 18, 2021 7:47:47 GMT
These Gung Ho activities, no speeds were quoted, so I suspect that the perceived rivals such as the boy racer in his Porsche had more sense and did not respond to a challenge. If you are clocked at travelling more than 20 kph over the speed limit that is an immediate ban.
Brian
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Post by simplyloco on Aug 18, 2021 7:59:01 GMT
Agreed. I owned a black MR2 GT T-Bar: just 158 HP but I chased a 911 right through the Elan Valley and I kept up! Just... When I eventually owned a 911 Carrera 2 S I was afraid of crashing it so never really had any fun! The most fun I had on the road didn't involve a car. Until you've ridden a well designed motorbike along country lanes or a mountain road, you haven't lived. You are one with the machine, you are part of the bike. Only two motorbikes I've ridden fall into this category.... A 1978 750cc Triumph Bonneville and an 'N' reg Honda 400/4. I did have a few laughs on Sunday mornings on the M40 between Oxford and M25 Junction. I'd plod along keeping an eye on my mirror waiting for a boy racer in his Porche. As soon as he drew level, throttle to the stop, turbo boost up to max and I disappeared.... I had a Honda CX650tc, they never stood a chance I was that soldier, having owned a succession of Triumphs, culminating in 1967 with a brand new Triumph 650cc Trophy. As it proceeded to fall to pieces around me over the next two years I learnt to appreciate my 911 in later life...
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Post by Roger on Aug 18, 2021 8:21:39 GMT
We like to kid ourselves that we're 'fast drivers', but the reality is that we rarely have ever had a car or motorbike at the limit of performance. The only times we briefly have, almost always ended badly or scared us into behaving more sensibly. Without training and practice, you'll never know where the limit is for you chosen ride. Just look at the way racing drivers take someone for a spin on a track in a powerful saloon car. They're constantly hanging on to grip with their fingernails, controlling slides with instinctive split second reactions. I very much doubt if any of us have these skills. Taking risks by driving too fast down twisty roads is just pushing your luck to the limit, not the car. Just look at how fast rally drivers go down these sorts of roads to see the difference.
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lesstoneuk
Part of the e-furniture
Retired Omnibus navigation & velocity adjustment technician
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Post by lesstoneuk on Aug 18, 2021 8:42:40 GMT
We like to kid ourselves that we're 'fast drivers', but the reality is that we rarely have ever had a car or motorbike at the limit of performance. The only times we briefly have, almost always ended badly or scared us into behaving more sensibly. Without training and practice, you'll never know where the limit is for you chosen ride. Just look at the way racing drivers take someone for a spin on a track in a powerful saloon car. They're constantly hanging on to grip with their fingernails, controlling slides with instinctive split second reactions. I very much doubt if any of us have these skills. Taking risks by driving too fast down twisty roads is just pushing your luck to the limit, not the car. Just look at how fast rally drivers go down these sorts of roads to see the difference. I chickened out at 135mph,as you said, it creates brown streaks. I never did it again. My downfall was at 40mph on a country lane, losing grip on the back wheel as it went over some gravel in the road. I wS still sat on my bike in the ditch and couldn't lift it off. Found the strength as soon as I saw petrol leaking out onto the engine. I literally threw it off, a 650tc was a heavy bike. £1600 and lesson learnt, I was lucky
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2021 11:31:13 GMT
Hmm...I've driven fast all my life, it's second nature so speed doesn't flinch ne. What I never do though is drive at an inappropiate speed for the road/conditions. Mind you I've slowed down a lot in my old age. As for bike vs car, that argument has been put to bed many times...bike is good for straight speed and standing starts, not for bends. TG or was it 5thG proved this when a world champion superbike rider raced against a 911, just a standard car. The car won, can't recall the track but it doesn't really matter, the car will always win when bends are involved. Standing start straight run the bike will win, rolling start is not always a given though, as one sportsbike (IIRC Yamaha R6) found when challenging me on the A1...ask my wife, she was in the car at the time. I still hear her scream for me to stop as she feared for the biker hurting himself. It was an interesting encounter, all I did was tespond to the challenge...that rider learnt something that day, mind you he did try it on when I was in my 'sweet spot', not much out there to bother me when there...
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JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,912
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Post by JonL on Aug 18, 2021 12:10:38 GMT
It won't outrun a cameravan...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2021 12:41:34 GMT
It won't outrun a cameravan... Very true although I believe TG proved that if you go fast enough (150+ mph) the static camera can't catch your image on the second flash...mind you, speed camera's have moved on since then..
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lesstoneuk
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Post by lesstoneuk on Aug 18, 2021 19:00:56 GMT
As we are mentioning all forms of propulsion in automobiles I'd thought I'd chuck this one in the ring. Just watched it on YouTube. youtu.be/0DGtf7asP8I
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lesstoneuk
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Retired Omnibus navigation & velocity adjustment technician
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Post by lesstoneuk on Aug 19, 2021 7:20:29 GMT
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Post by Roger on Aug 19, 2021 7:55:42 GMT
Here's a pretty well balanced appraisal of Battery EVs compared to Fuel Cell EVs. It does imply that if you don't have a way to charge at home, you can't have a BEV, which is not a huge problem if you don't do huge daily mileages. Many owners will only charge at the shops say once a week. It's interesting that the Hydrogen car she chose to talk about, has less range than some BEVs. If you don't have significantly more range, the only advantage is rate of refuelling. There seem to be issues with the reliability of Hydrogen stations. She also states that if there's a power cut you can't charge BEVs. Why single those out? You can't fill with Petrol if there's a power cut either, and you probably can't with Hydrogen since you need electronics to meter and control the delivery. Even the proponents of Hydrogen do seem to admit there are infrastructure issues, and with the collapse of sales in the US, who's going to invest in more of it? The opening piece seems to claim that charging trucks overnight is an issue. I can't see that being a problem since that's when the grid is the least stressed. Anyway, it's an interesting piece that lays out the main points for each technology.
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Post by Roger on Aug 19, 2021 8:21:14 GMT
This idea is going to raise some hackles with Petrolheads. It's an interesting idea, and clearly the point about electical power generation emissions is a fair one until the switch to clean energy is complete. It certainly would speed up the transition to EVs though. And here's another step that won't be popular, but has been a long time coming. I'm waiting to see how many accidents are caused by the very high rate of accelleration of EVs. I can see legislation limiting the acceleration to a more sensible level. It serves little purpose other than to give a thrill. The extremes were only implemented to show that EVs are superior to ICE powertrains. We know that now, so there's no need for it.
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uuu
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Post by uuu on Aug 19, 2021 9:38:57 GMT
Sure, the premium EVs have monster acceleration. But more normal brands have more normal results. Mine quotes a 0-62 time of 9 seconds.
The car has "modes". In "Normal", the acceleration feels better than a petrol car, because it's instant, and does not require a change-down, or screaming engine. But in "Range" mode, which we use, the throttle response is wound back, so less enticing.
In theory the car has a speaker under the bonnet, which emits a whining noise to warn pedestrians of approach. In practice it's not much use - surprise usually occurs in parking situations. What is needed is a idling noise when stationary - perhaps I should adapt an electric loco sound card.
Wilf
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Post by modeng2000 on Aug 19, 2021 9:51:50 GMT
I heard an EV manovering outside the house while I was indoors with the windows closed. It was really obvious that something was going on, seemingly much louder than a normal IC vehicle. Perhaps it was the strange noise that made it stand out but I would guess it was quite loud. Every movement of the car was accompanied by this noise with it going quiet between movements unlike 'normal' vehicles.
John
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Post by chris vine on Aug 19, 2021 21:30:00 GMT
Thinking about cars with huge acceleration, I think they are less dangerous than more normal fast cars.
I have been lucky to have been allowed to drive, or be driven in some amazing cars. To name drop a few: Ferrari F40, Lamborghini Diablo Evo, Aston Martin Virage, Audi R8 V10 Plus. The thing that sets them apart from lovely cars like Porsche Boxters and lots of other high performance cars is that they have so much acceleration that you can get your thrills at quite low speeds. You get a huge acceleration at 20 mph, 50 mph etc, and, yes, it is rather addictive. (I am now old and am accused of driving like Miss Daisy these days! especially in my VW van going to railway events round the country when my usual motorway speed is 60.) In fast cars, maybe with 0 to 60 of 8 or 9 seconds, the thrill may be more the cornering forces when going at high speed. This is much more dangerous! On the road it means you are on a bend, so may not be able to see very far ahead. And if something goes wrong you are going so fast that a crash is more or less inevitable. The speed then means the crash will be serious and might also involve someone else.
The man who drove me in the Ferrari F40 never went above 50, but it was still a visceral experience.
James Hunt's favourite car was an Austin A35 van. He said you could have it sideways at 30 mph. while this is certainly not recommended on the public roads, at least the speed is modest. Mind you, with no seat belts, airbags and a special crumply body with a rigid steering column, maybe you are safer in a modern car going faster??
Chris.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2021 6:31:50 GMT
Very true Chris although I wouldn't call an 0-60 of 8 to 9 secs fast....more like pedestrian....🤣🤣🤣
But yes I fully agree, very fast cars don't need to be driven fast and when they are pushed are so quick that the speed whichever it may be is reached very quickly and over with just as quick. Sitting at high speed for long distances on a public road is a recipe for disaster, even on the motorway. My own car back in '86' when new was 5.9 to 60, today she has twice the power output with an increase in speed to match and she's much lighter than modern cars which brings its own factors in holding the road more safely.
Pete
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uuu
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Post by uuu on Aug 20, 2021 15:47:12 GMT
OK, this is just a back-of-an-envelope calculation - I've just done an electricity meter reading, and I've used £28.36 more than last month. The electric car has done more than 600 miles now, so approximate cost per mile is 4.7pence. My diesel car does about 42 miles to the gallon, so at 130 pence per litre, I make that 14.1pence/mile.
Wilf
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Post by Roger on Aug 20, 2021 16:04:38 GMT
OK, this is just a back-of-an-envelope calculation - I've just done an electricity meter reading, and I've used £28.36 more than last month. The electric car has done more than 600 miles now, so approximate cost per mile is 4.7pence. My diesel car does about 42 miles to the gallon, so at 130 pence per litre, I make that 14.1pence/mile. Wilf That sounds about right, it's quite a saving. Don't forget to include the extra yards you have to drive to get the Diesel, after all, that's two trips you didn't have to make ;-)
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Post by Jo on Aug 20, 2021 16:30:16 GMT
OK, this is just a back-of-an-envelope calculation - I've just done an electricity meter reading, and I've used £28.36 more than last month. The electric car has done more than 600 miles now, so approximate cost per mile is 4.7pence. My diesel car does about 42 miles to the gallon, so at 130 pence per litre, I make that 14.1pence/mile. Wilf That sounds about right, it's quite a saving. Don't forget to include the extra yards you have to drive to get the Diesel, after all, that's two trips you didn't have to make ;-) And also don't forget to add the running costs of the replacement £8k battery in 8 years time so 600 miles or 7200 a year is an extra 14p to add per mile (or the same as the cost of the diesel ). Jo
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Post by Roger on Aug 20, 2021 17:25:53 GMT
That sounds about right, it's quite a saving. Don't forget to include the extra yards you have to drive to get the Diesel, after all, that's two trips you didn't have to make ;-) And also don't forget to add the running costs of the replacement £8k battery in 8 years time so 600 miles or 7200 a year is an extra 14p to add per mile (or the same as the cost of the diesel ). Jo You can't judge battery life on first generation EVs, they're constantly improving. Tesla are aiming at a battery with a 1 million mile life, and already they are lasting longer than the average mileage that an ICE car does. I suspect Wilf's batteries will significantly outlast the 8 year life you're suggesting, possibly based on the sample of one Prius. All batteries are not created equal. It will be interesting to see how long these new Tesla 4680 cells last, because they will be the lowest stressed batteries being made. Pilot production starts soon in Giga Berlin and Giga Texas, and these are expected to be a game changer in terms of life, rate of charge, capacity and cost. This is the fastest moving aspect of the EV business, and Tesla are at least five years ahead of everyone.
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