tim
Active Member
Posts: 32
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Post by tim on Dec 16, 2004 19:44:38 GMT
Hi all
i need a bit of guidance to what lathe / milling machine's to go for , to build steam engines for model boats . iam looking to keep it for 30 years + all been well .
i have looked at warco and chester products lathes 3 in 1's ect just woundering if any of you guys have any of these products and what do you think of them!!
Cheers Tim
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Post by Allan Waterfall on Dec 16, 2004 22:23:37 GMT
If you want new it looks like you will have to get something Chinese from Warco or Chester.
I bought a 626 from Chester and sent it back,there had been no pre delivery inspection,parts were either bent,broke,missing or rusty and it would not even run.Couldn't even get them to ring me back about it.
I then got a Tom Senior light vertical of ebay,beautiful machine.
Might pay you to check out ebay for some used British machines. If you are not in a hurry something will usually turn up there and if it's not too far from where you live you can always go and look at it.
If you get 3 phase and an inverter it is better than single phase,smoother and variable speed.Fitted both my mill and lathe this year.
Chris Heapys site runs a free "For Sale" part,usually something there.
Allan
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Doug J
Active Member
Posts: 20
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Post by Doug J on Dec 17, 2004 13:06:42 GMT
The best thing is to see any machine in the flesh, and running if possible. If your workshop is indoors one of the most important things is noise. Running a lathe or mill with a variable speed single to three phase inverter really quietens things down and gives a soft start to the motor making it a joy to use. The Chinese stuff gives a lot of metal for the price, but it can be a bit rough and workmanship can be a bit hit and miss. If money is not a problem then buy quality stuff - you will not regret it and the memory of the cost dims rapidly.
I bought a Myford lathe about ten years ago and have never regretted it. Everything is smooth and has a feeling of quality. More recently I bought a Chinese mill and I have to say the quality is just not there. Everything is that bit rougher, but it was very much cheaper than than a better quality machine. You pays your money and.......
Doug Johnston
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Post by alanstepney on Dec 17, 2004 17:40:48 GMT
A year or so ago I examined a number of machines and talked to several suppiers on behalf of a friend.
My conclusion was that the best machines were those from Engineers Tool Room in Wales, and Arc-Euro Trade.
Of course, times can change things, but in any case, I would advise checking for yourself.
The exhibition season is upon us, so it is easy to see several at one location.
As for "which machine?"
The 3-in-1 machines are popular and save space, but do have limititions.
However, I would go for a Myford ML7 / Super7.
Mine is over 30 years old nad has done a lot of work, some much over the size for which it was designed.
Still works fine.
You can mill in the lathe with the aid of a few simply made attachments, and that is then the only machine you need.
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Post by Tel on Dec 17, 2004 19:07:19 GMT
........ & at 30+ years the workshop will be starting to come together nicely
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Ianb
Member
Posts: 8
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Post by Ianb on Dec 17, 2004 20:35:37 GMT
Tim,
I too looked at Chester etc and finally plumped for a Warco lathe / mill combination. Since it was a Christmas present, from me to me (the best kind), there was a bit of a delay in it arriving. When it did it was a shock - heavy!! Unlike other's experience, it was in excellent condition, heavily oiled on a pallet that formed the base of a crate. I had to strip it almost down to the bare bed just to get it into the house. If you go down this route do plan a very sturdy base for it.
Once it was running I tried a test bar in the 3-jaw with a dial gauge and was amazed at the accuracy and it still runs true after three years of fairly constant use. Apart from a 4-jaw independant chuck, you get just about everything else to get you going. I've improved on the machine vice and have bought a collet set and a quick-change tool post and now feel more or less fully equipped. Turning and parting off are a delight and I've had endless fun using it as a mill.
Now for the negative bits. Previously I had used lathes with a back gear and the lowest speed I can get is a bit on the high side. Changing speeds is a total pain in the ****. The belts are in a rectangular box with a large end door, but because of space I had some difficulty getting into it. I finally dismantled it and removed the box. Changing chucks is also something of a pain. They bolt onto a plate instead of screwing onto the spindle nose and there is not much room between said plate and headstock casting. Getting the 4-jaw on and off is a Herculean task because of the weight. The final problem is that when I fine turn using a fine feed, I get a very faint diagonal pattern like the finest chatter marks on the work. I think this is caused by the massive cross-slide / milling table crabbing or twisting slightly then releasing. It's something I intend to go into in detail at some point when it becomes a problem. Other than that I must say I am more than satisfied and at around £1400 I am sure I got value for money.
Ian
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Post by Tim Bayliss on Dec 19, 2004 11:30:33 GMT
Tim,
If you ask 10 engineering types what machine tools to buy you'll get 10 different answers. I strongly suggest you visit a couple of the model engineering shows and fiddle with the stuff on display. You must, however, be aware of the perameters you need your machines to work with, for example, the Myford range are top quality machines but are limited by the centre height and hole through the headstock. if you intend to turn relatively small diameters or shortish lengths of larger stuff they're fine, and the machines and accessories are readily available.
But if you intend to do a substantial amount of larger diameter/length turning you may be better off with either a second hand, bigger British machine or one of the Chinese offerings. Just make sure whatever lathe you choose has a tee slotted cross slide & back gear.
Don't forget that a gear head lathe will be noisier than a belt head lathe which could well be an issue in a small workshop.
Incidentally, I've read a lot of negative stuff about the Chinese machine tools with regard to finish, etc. Being a professional engineer I tend to take notice of the `working bits' rather than the aesthetics of a machine tool and from the machines I have examined, although they may not look so well finished overall, they seem to put the effort in where it matters. They are after all working to a budget price rather than trying to maintain a high standard that is more costly. Don't expect a Rolls Royce when you're paying for a Skoda, but they'll both get you there.
So don't rush into things, at model engineering levels of work any of the currently available machine tools, if well cared for, will last at least one lifetime. Take your time, look around and get it right first time!
Best of luck & happy turning,
Tim Bayliss
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tim
Active Member
Posts: 32
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Post by tim on Dec 25, 2004 20:15:29 GMT
hi all thankyou all your opinions on the lathes etc i have picked up a 2nd hand myford ml7 this week for a reasonable price to get started with. i have been to harrogate twice in the last three years and talking to the different trade stands iam even more unsure which one to choose (not including the myfords here ££££'s). just need abit practice before i start a twin cylinder oscillating engine in the new year.  cheers tim happy new year ;  |
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Post by alanstepney on Dec 26, 2004 3:10:37 GMT
I am sure the Myford will serve you well. It is very probable that more models have been made on a Myford than on any other single make of lathe. Your idea for a first engine is good. Too many people try to start with something complex and end up with a pile of scrap (Been there, done that, and still have some items in the "useful bits" box!!) hi all thankyou all your opinions on the lathes etc i have picked up a 2nd hand myford ml7 this week for a reasonable price to get started with. i have been to harrogate twice in the last three years and talking to the different trade stands iam even more unsure which one to choose (not including the myfords here ££££'s). just need abit practice before i start a twin cylinder oscillating engine in the new year. cheers tim happy new year ; |
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Post by Anzaniste on Jan 7, 2005 20:59:45 GMT
Tim, Now for the negative bits. Previously I had used lathes with a back gear and the lowest speed I can get is a bit on the high side. Changing speeds is a total pain in the ****. The belts are in a rectangular box with a large end door, but because of space I had some difficulty getting into it. I finally dismantled it and removed the box. Changing chucks is also something of a pain. They bolt onto a plate instead of screwing onto the spindle nose and there is not much room between said plate and headstock casting. Getting the 4-jaw on and off is a Herculean task because of the weight. The final problem is that when I fine turn using a fine feed, I get a very faint diagonal pattern like the finest chatter marks on the work. I think this is caused by the massive cross-slide / milling table crabbing or twisting slightly then releasing. It's something I intend to go into in detail at some point when it becomes a problem. Other than that I must say I am more than satisfied and at around £1400 I am sure I got value for money. Ian I bought a Chester and had similar problems and similar usefulness.. Speeds; I kind of anticipated this so bought the electronic speed controller which has made life simpler. I calibrated the revs by chucking a piece of m8 studding and timed a run of a nut down a measured length. With care it works well. Chuck changing; the big pain in the bum is the proximity of the back plate to the headstock casting. I reduced the effect of this by shortening the leg of the allen key as much as possible to give clearance, it certainly makes the job a bit eaisier. Diagonal pattern; now that is the most annoying bit. The first thing I did was to remove the saddle and hand scrape the horizontal surfaces, I did the same thing with the cross slide and this improved matters a little, it certainly is smoother but still is not right. Tightening the gibb strips improves things but they do not stay adjusted long. I suspect that a dowel location of the gibb strip to stop it moving and improving the fit of the adjusting screws into the strip would make things better. Any comments any one?? The length of the cross slide is a bit in the mean side and I suspect that will give rise to the crabbing mentioned. Has any-one any suggestions for this. Infact has any-one out there done any improvements to this type of lathe. Mine is a Chester Type B with the integral milling head. It looks almost identical to the Warco, I can't believe that they don't come from the saqme factory in China or the same foundry at least. The compound slide is really Mickey Mouse and doubled up as the milling machine vice. Again it suffers from the same crude gib strip adjustment. Having said all that the machine has been a boon to me and performed all manner of useful jobs generally associated with vintage car bits. For the money, at the time I needed, it there was not really any competition. I have even converted it to do 1" pitch oil grooves in bronze bearing bushes! Has any body out there had a go at improving one of these machines? I would like to hear. Tuning the beast (or taming) is part of the fun. |
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Post by Allan Waterfall on Jan 7, 2005 22:56:03 GMT
You might find some answers to 3 in 1 machines here,you could always post a question. www.chaski.com/ubb/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=3in1Could be the diagonal marks are due to the single phase motor "cogging". One of the "Powertwist" link belts might help to cut down transmitted vibrations.Just fitted one on my Myford layshaft to spindle drive,easier than stripping the spindle and layshaft to fit a standard "V" belt. I used the strobe discs on Tony Jeffrees site to calculate my VFD settings on my mill. www.jeffree.co.uk/Pages/speedmeasurement.htmlAllan |
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Post by NZoldun on Jan 16, 2005 3:40:54 GMT
We have a saying in professional engineering:-
"Never ask two Engineeers for an opinion!"
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PH
Seasoned Member
Posts: 113
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Post by PH on Jan 16, 2005 10:48:40 GMT
I've got a Chester model B, and I agree with the comments made here - it's certainly not a Myford, it has a few drawbacks (which you can work around), but it's one hell of a machine for your money.
As for changing the chuck (a pain as supplied), I removed the bolts, put some studding in the holes with Loctite and now I remove it in seconds with an open-ended spanner.
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Post by Anzaniste on Jan 18, 2005 0:20:00 GMT
Doh! Why didn't I think of that . Thanks for the tip.
Any more?
How do you get round the problems with the crappy compound slide/milling vice?
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PH
Seasoned Member
Posts: 113
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Post by PH on Jan 18, 2005 8:03:25 GMT
OK, since there seems to be interest in the machine, here's what I've discovered/modified in the 10 years I've had it.
Since my machine is crammed in to the workshop (isn't everybody's?) the belt cabinet door proved to be a problem, so I removed it and machined a plug to defeat the safety interlock.
I bashed a hole through the back top of the belt cabinet and installed the cheapest Anglepoise lamp I could find. It can swivel round to illuminate the interior of the belt cabinet.
When changing speeds, slackening/tightening the layshaft securing nut was a fiddly job using a spanner. Solution: weld the nut into the end of a piece of tube about 5 or 6 inches long and drill a cross hole for a tommy bar at the other end. It's now easy to move without a spanner.
I traced excessive leadscrew play (after several years use) to the block which holds the engaging mechanism. The bolts were slack but tightening them up locked the whole affair. I just have to adjust them every couple of months - it's pretty quick and easy to get the right adjustment.
As for the compound slide/milling vice, mine's isn't too bad, but I take the precaution of testing/adjusting before use. In general, I just try to avoid using it, since I have access to a much larger mill at my club. I remove it for milling and use a raising block bolted to the saddle.
There is a lot of cross slide play which I intend to sort pretty soon. Either I will dismantle the front and put some shims in, or probably pull the machine away from the wall to get access to the back of the saddle. The cross slide screw is centre drilled at the back and I intend to drill the back of the saddle casting (careful here!) tap and install a strap with a screw in the middle bearing on the cross slide screw - a bit of adjustment should prevent the screw moving back and forth
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