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Post by steamer5 on Jul 9, 2022 8:52:23 GMT
Hi Bob, I brought one from these guys some years ago.... www.clearvuecyclones.com ..... the CV06 mini, works really well & you can see whats going on! Sorry cant remember what it cost, but so long ago not relevant, current $125 US, then freight to NZ. Have a read about the design by Bill makes interesting reading. Oh recently being using it to pick up swarf from the floor after use of an end mill, it does it with ease! Cheers Kerrin
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Jul 9, 2022 9:25:32 GMT
Hi Pete. The sprayings look as if they may have got the proportion of pigments to resin wrong, and maybe not quite enough propellant either. They are right about the temperature though, which also may be the cause of the problem. 60F, or 15.5C, is the ideal temp for any painting. 9C (48F) doesn't allow the propellant in the can, to change from liquid to gas, quickly enough, so the gas pressure inside the can drops too far as soon as you press the button, so you don't get full atomisation of the paint for spraying. Just as an example, if you tried to use a spray can at an ambient temperature of around -10C, the can just wouldn't spray as the liquid gas wouldn't evaporate to produce an internal pressure. The other problem with using spray cans at too low an ambient temp, is that the paint that has been sprayed, won't dry quickly enough to give a decent finish. It can sag on vertical surfaces. The other problem is that the paint emerges as tiny globules and these don't flow out into a smooth surface, if it is too cold...hence the 60F (15.5C) being the ideal working temp. Hope that helps. Bob. That’s very helpful Bob, thanks, it’s the first time I’ve had that explained. That explains some occasions I’ve had, when finish problems have arisen with aerosol cans. Gary
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Post by doubletop on Jul 9, 2022 22:26:02 GMT
Hi Pete. The sprayings look as if they may have got the proportion of pigments to resin wrong, and maybe not quite enough propellant either. They are right about the temperature though, which also may be the cause of the problem. 60F, or 15.5C, is the ideal temp for any painting. 9C (48F) doesn't allow the propellant in the can, to change from liquid to gas, quickly enough, so the gas pressure inside the can drops too far as soon as you press the button, so you don't get full atomisation of the paint for spraying. Just as an example, if you tried to use a spray can at an ambient temperature of around -10C, the can just wouldn't spray as the liquid gas wouldn't evaporate to produce an internal pressure. The other problem with using spray cans at too low an ambient temp, is that the paint that has been sprayed, won't dry quickly enough to give a decent finish. It can sag on vertical surfaces. The other problem is that the paint emerges as tiny globules and these don't flow out into a smooth surface, if it is too cold...hence the 60F (15.5C) being the ideal working temp. Hope that helps. Bob. Bob Thanks for explaining what I was experiencing. The result may be that I park the project for a few months to let the weather improve. We are only in July and down here it will get worse before it starts to get better. The samples I posted to not give a good representation of the actual colour. It was a quick pass of the can sprayed onto a standard A4 sheet from my printer. Just to demonstrate the unevenness of the spray fan. The actual colour produced is very close to your sample. And, of course the temperature could have been a factor. The sheets were taped to my metal garage door. The extractor you posted is exactly what I have used and the price is very similar NZ$253 which is GBP130. www.machineryhouse.co.nz/2sc0056Pete
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Post by doubletop on Jul 9, 2022 22:34:22 GMT
Hi Bob, I brought one from these guys some years ago.... www.clearvuecyclones.com ..... the CV06 mini, works really well & you can see whats going on! Sorry cant remember what it cost, but so long ago not relevant, current $125 US, then freight to NZ. Have a read about the design by Bill makes interesting reading. Oh recently being using it to pick up swarf from the floor after use of an end mill, it does it with ease! Cheers Kerrin Kerrin Maybe a cheaper option and local. www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/business-farming-industry/industrial/manufacturing-metalwork/dust-collectors-extractors/listing/3671961401My concern was the amount of garnet that could get carried over into the vacuum cleaner and lost as it would be mixed with the other detritus in the can. Maybe I should have given it a go? However, I’m happy with the solution I have although it is very noisy ear defenders are a must. Pete
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Post by steamer5 on Jul 10, 2022 4:00:00 GMT
Hi Pete, After I posted the link I had another look & they sell just the cyclone, which is what I brought way back. Hmmmm you shouldn’t get any garnet carried across to the cleaner, it should either not make it out of your cabinet, or be dropped out in the cyclone. Do you have any way of reducing the air flow thru the cyclone, ie a air inlet/bypass between the cabinet & cyclone…… your picture shows the cyclone pretty much bolted to the cabinet so I guess not. You could put one on the outlet & reduce the air volume thru it which should help drop out your garnet. The other thing you can do is put a baffle plate over the outlet, say 20mm off the wall, sealed 3 sides, the inlet to it 1/2 way plus down the side Personnel I wouldn’t use garnet, I use glass beads it’s not as aggressive as garnet & may take a bit longer to take stuff off but works fine. I had a job to do for dad awhile back, he had acquired the whistle of the old steam dredge which work our harbour, about 4” dia by 3 foot long, what ever the guys had painted the base with took some work to get off, I finally took it to work & the blasters did it for me, the black stuff, could of been a bituminous paint was stuck like the proverbial!
just had a better look at what you have, it appears to be a filter unit rather than a cyclone? You will need to clean it regularly as it amazing how fast they clog up!
Cheers Kerrin
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Post by doubletop on Jul 10, 2022 6:56:52 GMT
Hi Pete, After I posted the link I had another look & they sell just the cyclone, which is what I brought way back. Hmmmm you shouldn’t get any garnet carried across to the cleaner, it should either not make it out of your cabinet, or be dropped out in the cyclone. Do you have any way of reducing the air flow thru the cyclone, ie a air inlet/bypass between the cabinet & cyclone…… your picture shows the cyclone pretty much bolted to the cabinet so I guess not. You could put one on the outlet & reduce the air volume thru it which should help drop out your garnet. The other thing you can do is put a baffle plate over the outlet, say 20mm off the wall, sealed 3 sides, the inlet to it 1/2 way plus down the side Personnel I wouldn’t use garnet, I use glass beads it’s not as aggressive as garnet & may take a bit longer to take stuff off but works fine. I had a job to do for dad awhile back, he had acquired the whistle of the old steam dredge which work our harbour, about 4” dia by 3 foot long, what ever the guys had painted the base with took some work to get off, I finally took it to work & the blasters did it for me, the black stuff, could of been a bituminous paint was stuck like the proverbial! just had a better look at what you have, it appears to be a filter unit rather than a cyclone? You will need to clean it regularly as it amazing how fast they clog up! Cheers Kerrin Kerrin Yes, with a massive filter element. The internals are little cyclone like with the airflow doing a sharp turn around the wall of the cylinder as it enters. There is a trap door in the bottom for the residue to be removed, which is mainly dust like talcum powder. There is a plunger operated from the outside to give the filter a prod to dislodge the dust. The motor unit unclips, with the filter attached so it will be easy to clean the filter when necessary. When the fan is running the gloves stand to attention and the door is pulled closed by the vacuum, increasing the seal. The key for me is there is no dust escaping, which happened from every minor orifice with my old unit. I am using 30/60 garnet, which my seem a bit drastic, but it is readily available locally. I looked at glass beads, shipped from Auckland and wasn’t prepared to pay the price they were asking along with their freight costs. I thought the 30/60 garnet may be a bit harsh but it isn’t. I’ve dropped the pressure from 100psi to 80psi and it is fine. I can always move to a nozzle with a larger diameter, that would also reduce the velocity. The compressor can keep up as well, with it cutting out regularly. Pete
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Post by doubletop on Jul 15, 2022 2:32:35 GMT
Hi Pete. The sprayings look as if they may have got the proportion of pigments to resin wrong, and maybe not quite enough propellant either. ....... Hope that helps. Bob. I am now making some progress and managing to work around the gremlins and get some acceptable and repeatable results. I thought I'd address Bob's comment and provide comparison between the sample he kindly provided and what is coming out of the can. Remember this is a photo so the colours may not appear to be what they should be, however this is about the similarity between the two in the same conditions, outside in overcast daylight. I think it is close enough and nothing that some bright spark in New Zealand may suggest "I think there should be a tad more blue (or whatever) in the mix". Pete
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Post by 92220 on Jul 15, 2022 8:16:32 GMT
Hi Pete.
There is a very good answer to such a comment....Pre WW2, ALL paint was made from natural materials, so there were almost always variation in colour, and the sulphurous atmosphere of the railways altered the colours within days of application. Some colours more than others. Even on the same loco, there were slight differences, depending where the colour was being viewed. Hotter it could get, the darker the colour change.
Bob.
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Post by doubletop on Jul 15, 2022 8:44:13 GMT
Hi Pete. There is a very good answer to such a comment....Pre WW2, ALL paint was made from natural materials, so there were almost always variation in colour, and the sulphurous atmosphere of the railways altered the colours within days of application. Some colours more than others. Even on the same loco, there were slight differences, depending where the colour was being viewed. Hotter it could get, the darker the colour change. Bob. Bob Thanks That could well happen anyway. However, a while to go before we get to find out. Pete
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Post by doubletop on Jul 22, 2022 4:30:06 GMT
Just to continue with my regular series of lack of progress updates here is the total achieved this week. I managed to get the major sub-assemblies through the sand blaster ready for the etch primer. Only to be thwated by a severe storm that has been chucking down with rain for nearly 3 days, severe gales and temperatures below 10degC. So no painting. Nothing like you are getting in the Northern Hemisphere. Pete
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Post by doubletop on Jul 24, 2022 8:07:35 GMT
I’ve managed to make some progress over the weekend. The rain has stopped and we’ve had two reasonable days. OK it was only 10degC but some heaters in the workshop allowed me to get the heat up to 16degC. Adequate for painting. Etch primer on the bunker and tanks And able to make a start on the top coat I’ve also managed to do the running boards, bunker floor and tank backs in black. But don’t have a picture. so things are moving now. Pete
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Post by doubletop on Jul 25, 2022 7:56:26 GMT
I got the tanks done today. I'm now managing to work with the paint I had made up. When I used epoxy enamel it could take 16 hours to dry. Particularly in the weather we have at the moment. This stuff can be recoated around 10-15mins after application, it is touch dry. I give it about an hour and I can mask up for the second colour. So, the tanks had 3 coats of black this morning and after lunch I masked up and started on the 3 coats of green. Tonight, all the masking came off. Next is the cab roof, but before I do that, I need to add the gutter as that delineates the green sides and black top. I'd left the gutter to later as I'd had a go at it but couldn’t find a way of holding the it to allow it to be soft soldered in place. Later has now arrived and I'm going to use the solder paste, rivet the gutter in place at the ends with 1/32" rivets and the heat for the solder to flow. Pete
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Post by steamer5 on Jul 25, 2022 8:05:32 GMT
Hi Pete, Glad to see the rubbish weather isn’t holding you back! Looking really good!
Cheers Kerrin
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Post by doubletop on Jul 25, 2022 8:32:05 GMT
Hi Pete, Glad to see the rubbish weather isn’t holding you back! Looking really good! Cheers Kerrin Kerrin Thanks. Noe I've found a way to work around it and he fast drying times means the power bill isn't going to be a big shock. Pete
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barlowworks
Statesman
Now finished my other projects, Britannia here I come
Posts: 874
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Post by barlowworks on Jul 26, 2022 4:38:14 GMT
Be wary of fixing something thin like a gutter with rivets then heating it up as it may buckle as it expands. Mike I got the tanks done today. I'm now managing to work with the paint I had made up. When I used epoxy enamel it could take 16 hours to dry. Particularly in the weather we have at the moment. This stuff can be recoated around 10-15mins after application, it is touch dry. I give it about an hour and I can mask up for the second colour. So, the tanks had 3 coats of black this morning and after lunch I masked up and started on the 3 coats of green. Tonight, all the masking came off. Next is the cab roof, but before I do that, I need to add the gutter as that delineates the green sides and black top. I'd left the gutter to later as I'd had a go at it but couldn’t find a way of holding the it to allow it to be soft soldered in place. Later has now arrived and I'm going to use the solder paste, rivet the gutter in place at the ends with 1/32" rivets and the heat for the solder to flow. Pete
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Post by doubletop on Jul 26, 2022 9:55:25 GMT
Be wary of fixing something thin like a gutter with rivets then heating it up as it may buckle as it expands. Mike Next is the cab roof, but before I do that, I need to add the gutter as that delineates the green sides and black top. I'd left the gutter to later as I'd had a go at it but couldn’t find a way of holding the it to allow it to be soft soldered in place. Later has now arrived and I'm going to use the solder paste, rivet the gutter in place at the ends with 1/32" rivets and the heat for the solder to flow. Pete Mike Good point thanks; something I hadn't considered and need to be aware of. I'm only fixing at the outer ends and there is a fold in the middle so hopefully any expansion will be taken up by the "V" shape. allowing for solder temp of deg C that the expansion would be about 30thou. Pete
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Post by doubletop on Jul 27, 2022 8:14:48 GMT
As it turned out any distortion or other effects of heating the gutter rail to solder it in place didn’t materialise. I used PCB solder paste again. You can still see traces after it came out of the sand-blaster, which didn’t distort the gutter either. You may notice that I have slotted the holes for the rivets in the gutter to accommodate any expansion but it wasn’t necessary. The rivets served to locate the gutter while it was being soldered. Otherwise, I could not see any other way of getting it in the correct place. A toolmakers clamp was used to hold the crux of the ‘V’ in place with the correct offset of 5/32”. I used a 4mm drill shank and a straight edge between the outer ends to set offset. I’m quite pleased with the result Pete
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Post by doubletop on Jul 28, 2022 7:16:02 GMT
Well thats all the major sub assemblies painted. It is begining to look the part now. Next is painting all the little add on bits and pieces and then assembly. There is some other work that needs lookng at, for example the dome could do with those lower edges thining down. Pete
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dalboy
E-xcellent poster
Posts: 235
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Post by dalboy on Jul 28, 2022 8:40:13 GMT
Starting to take shape and looks great. I still have a very long way to go
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Post by doubletop on Jul 28, 2022 20:33:05 GMT
Starting to take shape and looks great. I still have a very long way to go Thank you. The only advice I would be would be to take your time and enjoy the experience. I try to set myself goals but at times been find it hard to motivate myself and get out there do something. Once I do, I'm OK and enjoy myself. However, this has resulted in some weeks finding myself doing very little. Even then a little progress is progress, just don't stop. The tanks began to get me down a bit so I just moved onto some of the smaller stuff like the tank lids, air vent, seats etc. That gave the gratification of progress. I'm sounding lie I’m on the home straight. Far from it. Pete
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