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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2022 20:38:14 GMT
I've just read that 4472 is returning to her true livery/number for her centenary year next year. I know some won't be happy but for me its the best news possible...  Pete |
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lesstoneuk
Part of the e-furniture
Retired Omnibus navigation & velocity adjustment technician
Posts: 373
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Post by lesstoneuk on Jan 13, 2022 2:36:16 GMT
She looks awesome in BR green, it was a very brave decision to add the German type smoke deflectors and repaint in the BR green at the time. Yet we now feel the opposite way we felt then. Such is life.
Me.... If she carried the colour then it's a good choice no matter which one.
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Post by palmsticks on Jan 15, 2022 21:53:58 GMT
I'll just leave this here: LNER Doncaster green = proper green = the way it was meant to be!  *ducks and runs for cover!* |
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Post by terrier060 on Jan 15, 2022 22:32:40 GMT
The loco looked so much better with the single chimney and no wind deflecters. See the 2.5 inch gauge model that Bassett-Lowke built. The engine looks so well balanced. I find the new version quite ugly, even though it was thought necessary for visibility.
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lesstoneuk
Part of the e-furniture
Retired Omnibus navigation & velocity adjustment technician
Posts: 373
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Post by lesstoneuk on Jan 16, 2022 7:55:11 GMT
I'll just leave this here: LNER Doncaster green = proper green = the way it was meant to be! *ducks and runs for cover!* Eeeeyoooo, can't beat post 1928 GWR loco Green. All other greens look like squeezed zits. That should be enough to start WW3. |
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uuu
Elder Statesman
your message here...
Posts: 2,808
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Post by uuu on Jan 16, 2022 9:10:40 GMT
Most "Engine Green" colours could be "Improved", surely?
Wilf
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Post by 92220 on Jan 16, 2022 9:31:13 GMT
I'll just leave this here: LNER Doncaster green = proper green = the way it was meant to be!  *ducks and runs for cover!* Eeeeyoooo, can't beat post 1928 GWR loco Green. All other greens look like squeezed zits. That should be enough to start WW3. Flying Scotsman was never painted in GWR Loco Green. That colour was adopted by BR when they first introduced the dark Green livery, but it only remained in use until 1954 and then the Railway Board decided that they wanted a new Corporate Livery. The B.R.Loco Green introduced in 1954, was slightly bluer, and slightly darker. The old G.W.R. shade only survived on the odd loco that didn't get a major service after 1954, before it got scrapped. Any repainting had to be the new livery shade by order of the Board. Bob. |
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Post by palmsticks on Jan 17, 2022 0:11:42 GMT
The loco looked so much better with the single chimney and no wind deflecters. See the 2.5 inch gauge model that Bassett-Lowke built. The engine looks so well balanced. I find the new version quite ugly, even though it was thought necessary for visibility. To my eyes, the A1 and A3 is one of the most beautiful designs of steam locomotive ever. *sees pictures of Pete's model under construction and melts* |
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Post by palmsticks on Jan 17, 2022 0:26:00 GMT
I'll just leave this here: LNER Doncaster green = proper green = the way it was meant to be! *ducks and runs for cover!* Eeeeyoooo, can't beat post 1928 GWR loco Green. All other greens look like squeezed zits. That should be enough to start WW3. Also
Very interesting the history of the choice of colour. I seem to recall the the HMRS did a fantastic book on all things GWR which has the details and swatches of the GWR livery hmrs.org.uk/great-western-way-(second-edition)-book.html . Can't recall if it included BR green (I've misplaced my copy).
Anyway, back to 4472, she will look fantastic in apple green. I wonder if they will but the single blastpipe and chimney in to go with it and sacrfice the loss of performance (or get Nigel Day to squeeze in a single Lempor?!). Anyway anyway, she would look fantastic whatever colour they paint her: LMS crimson lake, Mr Blobby pink and yellow spots....
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Post by Boadicea on Jan 17, 2022 9:26:20 GMT
There has been plenty of speculation as to what is being done to 60103 - some of them miscievous - very mischievous, because the subject is volatile.
I am not sure any of it is true and it probably does not need painting anyway!
That said, painting in apple green without changing double blastpipe and deflectors etc., would set off the pedants even more.
Removing kylchap would make a disimprovement in performance so not for me.
So, leave it alone, or just touch it up - 60103 in BR green is how I knew it.
Most people, the majority of whom are paying, are happy to see it chug along in any guise - so cheapest option - leave it alone.
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Post by 92220 on Jan 17, 2022 19:33:15 GMT
Very interesting the history of the choice of colour. I seem to recall the the HMRS did a fantastic book on all things GWR which has the details and swatches of the GWR livery hmrs.org.uk/great-western-way-(second-edition)-book.html . Can't recall if it included BR green (I've misplaced my copy).
Anyway, back to 4472, she will look fantastic in apple green. I wonder if they will but the single blastpipe and chimney in to go with it and sacrfice the loss of performance (or get Nigel Day to squeeze in a single Lempor?!). Anyway anyway, she would look fantastic whatever colour they paint her: LMS crimson lake, Mr Blobby pink and yellow spots....
The HMRS book was very good, and surprisingly accurate text-wise. However, the colour swatches were off shade. Basically, the problem is that it is impossible to colour print a shade as an exact match to a painted surface. The reason for this is that for printing, there are just not enough 'clean' colours (colours that have no white in them) to colour match accurately. Even paint colour charts for paint suppliers, are not exact matches to the final shade if they are not produced using the actual paint. The only way to guarantee a perfect colour match between a colour chart and a painted surface, is for the colour chart swatch to be colour matched with paint pigments and to use the resultant shade to coat the colour swatch sheet. That rarely happens because it is an extremely time consuming practice and the resultant colour chart will 'cost a fortune'. Also, any colour matching using anything other than paint pigments, will rapidly change colour if it doesn't contain ultra violet inhibitor in the mix. When I used to colour match for Phoenix Paints, I had 13 base colours to use, plus titanium white. Most printed 'colour matching' is done with either 3 base colours of 5 base colours. Neither of which will accurately match all shades. Bob. |
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Post by andyhigham on Jan 17, 2022 19:44:21 GMT
I quite liked the temporary matt black with gold numbering just after the rebuild.
I am not precious about paintwork, I would be happy to see it in bright yellow with red /orange "Hot rod flames" down the boiler
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Post by theflyingscotsman on Jan 19, 2022 22:18:28 GMT
I like Doncaster green, I also like the double chimney and deflectors. People love it and people hate it but its still my favourite loco
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Post by dhamblin on Jan 20, 2022 9:53:04 GMT
I see that a statement has now been issued denying that a decision on the livery has been made yet.
There was some discussion years ago that a revised blast pipe arrangement could be designed to allow the single chimney form to return whilst not compromising the Kylchap performance, but that seems to have died away.
Regards,
Dan
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oldnorton
Statesman
5" gauge LMS enthusiast
Posts: 693
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Post by oldnorton on Jan 20, 2022 14:44:59 GMT
Does Flying Scotsman really need a double chimney?
Yes they want to load as many coaches on as possible for revenue, but speeds are not as high as they were in the 1930s to 50s. Tornado can run at 90mph but is Scotsman not restricted to 70mph? and there will always be a diesel on the back to provide half the push and the essential several kilowatts for the kitchens.
I would have thought that a single chimney will do the job, but would they ever be able to remove the smoke deflectors?
I am thinking that Class 7 Britannias ran happily on single chimneys but for the Class 8 Duke of Gloucester the double chimney was an unproven 'must have'.
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Post by andyhigham on Jan 20, 2022 15:33:18 GMT
Correct me if I am mistaken. I thought to run on national rail routes a steam loco needs to be able to reach 100mph to avoid timetable delays
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2022 15:47:17 GMT
Does Flying Scotsman really need a double chimney? Yes they want to load as many coaches on as possible for revenue, but speeds are not as high as they were in the 1930s to 50s. Tornado can run at 90mph but is Scotsman not restricted to 70mph? and there will always be a diesel on the back to provide half the push and the essential several kilowatts for the kitchens. I would have thought that a single chimney will do the job, but would they ever be able to remove the smoke deflectors? I am thinking that Class 7 Britannias ran happily on single chimneys but for the Class 8 Duke of Gloucester the double chimney was an unproven 'must have'. I agree Norm, IMHO there is no need for best performance in relation to speed these days, as you say FS is restricted to 70 mph (perhaps 75?) so why keep the double chimney? Although the double chimney may be a little more efficient, is that such an issue as a Heritage locomotive? It will be interesting to see what/if anything is done to FS for her centenary next year, if there was ever a time to put the single chimney back and ditch those smoke deflectors, now's the time. Now if I held the purse strings I'd be looking at a new boiler with a round dome, I'll be happy just to see her back in her proper colours though... Pete |
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Post by andrewtoplis on Jan 21, 2022 9:08:05 GMT
Correct me if I am mistaken. I thought to run on national rail routes a steam loco needs to be able to reach 100mph to avoid timetable delays I'm afraid you are wrong, sorry. Each class of loco has a maximum permitted speed largely based on wheel diameter and max piston speed, for the majority of the big Pacific's used on railtours this is 75mph. Tornado is the exception being allowed 90mph. The 8f used in the past is 50mph from memory. In terms of timetables, when tours are planned the path will be timed for the loco speed limit, a lot of work goes into getting these to fit around other trains. Obviously on the day things may change but then the route control team will deal with it in real time. Just a thought about single chimneys and power output, the economics of mainline steam are such that the last coach often provides all the profit (which goes back into overhauls etc), so reducing power would soon eat into this of you ended up with shorter trains. This explains why there are so few small locos on the mainline these days! |
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choochooenthusiast
Involved Member
Building a 3D printed Crab 13065. A wagon (or a few) in the works.
Posts: 70
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Post by choochooenthusiast on Jan 22, 2022 10:28:38 GMT
I am glad to hear the return to LNER green, the way it should be. It would be nice to see her without deflectors and a single chimney but I just don't see it happening.
Connor
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*ducks and runs for cover!*
*ducks and runs for cover!*
