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Post by allen99 on Jan 24, 2022 1:17:40 GMT
Having completed a wobbler and a Stuart 10, I am far from a competent model engineer but I was all keen to build a loco anyway, but, we will soon be moving home and there will be no suitable track anywhere close by.
After some thought I decided that a Traction engine would be a much better proposition.
In my mind, I was all set to build a 1" Minnie, I have a copy of the original ME articles, but then browsing this forum, the general consensus seems to be that a Minnie doesn't steam very well.
Ideally, I would like to build and engine at least capable of pulling myself and a child, but, at the very least I would like something that I could walk beside so a Minnie running on compressed air is not an option.
I don't want anything too big, So, my choices seem to be between a 1 1/2" Allchin, 2" Minnie, or 3" Little Samson, although the Little Samson is probably bigger than I want.
Browsing the web, it seems as if the Allchin is not really a beginner's model, and nobody seems to be supplying parts for the LS.
The 2" Minnie is a possibility but I doubt my ability to just scale it up. Would I just double everything except for the boiler, and if so, despite searching I have not been able to find a 2" boiler drawing
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks
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Post by ettingtonliam on Jan 24, 2022 1:28:53 GMT
Much depends on your workshop capacity. 1" Minnie, 1 1/2" Allchin, 2" Thetford Town, 3" Burrell, 4" Tasker Tractor, the list goes on. Maybe look at the size of the flywheels and the final drive gear, and decide if your lathe can handle them. Also depth of your pocket.
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Post by allen99 on Jan 24, 2022 1:42:54 GMT
ettingtonliam, thanks for the reply, unfortunately not being too familiar with this forum, I had saved before I had finished my questions Although my lathe is not large 7x10, I will be able to farm out turning the flywheel and rear wheels at minimum cost if necessary. |
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Post by Jim on Jan 24, 2022 4:17:28 GMT
As the builder of a 3" single crank Burrell Compound traction engine I'd go for something in 3" scale as in that scale the engine can still be more easily transported in a trailer and is capable of pulling you and a passenger on road runs or at traction engine rallies.
As others have mentioned the ability to machine the fly wheel or at least know someone who can do it for you is a point worth considering along with the issue of cutting the gears.
I was fortunate in having a friend who let me borrow his set of 10DP gear cutters and with Ivan Law's 'Gears and Gear Cutting' Workshop Practice Series 17 by my side discovered how to cut straight and bevel gears. This is the set up I used for cutting the first of two of the 10"diam drive gears, the biggest of the gears.
Like you my previous model engineering project was a small Unicorn Mill Engine but in fact all our model engineering projects big or small have challenges that are over come with the help of others who have been along the same path and at the end of the day you can say with pride 'I built that!'
Cheers
Jim
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jasonb
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,235
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Post by jasonb on Jan 24, 2022 7:18:55 GMT
The 2" Minnie will fire a lot better than the small single and is capable of pulling a couple of adults, being a freelance it's a lot easier to make and you don't need many castings. You can also add as much detail as you like, I have seen them made to look more like Allchins and Fowlers The 2" Fowler from MJ Engineering is another option and largish 2", more detailed than the Minnie but not quite so fiddly as a 1.5" Allchin. Again it will pull two adults and like the 2" Minnie can just about be squeezed onto a Myford with it's gap or a 250-280 size import lathe Steam Traction World now have the patterns for the Little Samson range and it is their intention to sell castings, contact them to see when they might be available www.steamtractionworld.com/little-samson/ |
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Post by suctionhose on Jan 24, 2022 10:11:09 GMT
2" Durham and North Yorkshire?
Having said that the source of drawings and castings is known to be unreliable.
Some good casting sets or part built TE's often come up on Station Road Steam (who is 100% reliable)
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Post by Nigel Bennett on Jan 24, 2022 13:39:13 GMT
2" Clayton steam wagon? I had a lot of fun with mine and it would certainly carry you and a nipper on the trailer. But check availability of rubber tyres before committing yourself. You will also need to fit the 2:1 reduction gearing as described by Ron Cockerill in ME. Don't expect it to run well on rough grass, though.
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jasonb
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,235
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Post by jasonb on Jan 24, 2022 15:19:06 GMT
2" Durham and North Yorkshire? Having said that the source of drawings and castings is known to be unreliable. Blackgates also do the D&NY, you should be safe with them for drawings and castings etc. Sarik also do the drawings |
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Post by allen99 on Jan 25, 2022 19:09:26 GMT
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jasonb
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,235
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Post by jasonb on Jan 25, 2022 20:36:59 GMT
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samc88
Active Member
Posts: 43 
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Post by samc88 on Jan 25, 2022 22:46:05 GMT
Julian Mowlam on youtube is building a 2" Fowler showmans on fairly small machinery which is interesting
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Post by suctionhose on Jan 27, 2022 11:20:12 GMT
Julian Mowlam on youtube is building a 2" Fowler showmans on fairly small machinery which is interesting Having built 2 traction engines and 10 loco's perhaps I can add something of value to your thoughts... Compound Fowlers are A LOT more work than a single cylinder engine. A Showman's version on top of that IS A LOT MORE WORK AGAIN. Personal taste aside (I'm not attracted to the Showman's types at all) consider a Burrell single: 3 shaft transmission, one set of valve gear vs a Compound (with diabolical cylinder as a Fowler) 4 shaft transmission, 3 speeds and two sets of valve gear in an extremely cramped space... Anything is do-able of course. Many have been made of all types. But at the point of selecting "what do I want to make next" be mindful of what you want to achieve via this most valiant decision and the time frame in mind! I would venture that even a basic two speed single cylinder tranction engine is significantly more work than your average 5"g locomotive. At least that is my experience having built, in retrospective order, a fine scale 2-8-0 with tender in 2000 hrs and finding it took over 4000 hrs to build a 3 speed compound road loco. Don't ask me about time on this ruddy ploughing engine.... nearly there, 7 years later |
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samc88
Active Member
Posts: 43
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Post by samc88 on Jan 29, 2022 0:58:53 GMT
I would venture that even a basic two speed single cylinder tranction engine is significantly more work than your average 5"g locomotive. At least that is my experience having built, in retrospective order, a fine scale 2-8-0 with tender in 2000 hrs and finding it took over 4000 hrs to build a 3 speed compound road loco. Don't ask me about time on this ruddy ploughing engine.... nearly there, 7 years later What accounts for the extra hours, complex wheels and gear cutting or something less obviously different to locos? Id love to make a traction engine one day |
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Post by suctionhose on Jan 29, 2022 2:43:53 GMT
We'll, you have the usual engine, boiler, steam fittings, tanks etc minus frames, turned wheels, bogies plus hornplates, hand made wheels and transmission components like gears.
That's a basic TE. Add again to that more and more components as you add complexity with compounding, 3 speeds, belly tanks, brass work, flamboyant paint work, generators, cranes, winding gear etc
My TE's are 3" scale and weigh 350kg and 500kg respectively. There's a lot of material there with cooresponding amounts of hours to work it!
The charm of a nice TE model lies in the detail, shape and finish of the parts. Every thing is very visible!
I'm not trying to put you off, honestly. Nothing worse than losing heart before the model is complete. Many people lose their way, give up or just can't allocate sufficient time to see the job through. That's a pity for their sake.
Seven years ago, two of us started building two ploughing engines. Nice old ones from 1880. Together we worked on the 4 rear wheels - took us 8 months to build four! I calculated there was approx 10000 individual operations to do! 1052 rivets later...
Anyway, my engine is within weeks of completion now. The other will never be finished - the commitment is big if you want to succeed!
I still reckon the D&NY in 2" scale is a good match for you! Blackgates not Brunell. Good luck!
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Post by Jim on Jan 29, 2022 2:57:06 GMT
Just to add to what Ross has said, there's and old but true saying,
'Build a model you really love because you are going to be with it for a very long time'.
I suspect part of the reason people start but never complete a model is because they lose interest in a project they were not fully committed to in the first place especially if the club Guru has told them to build 'one of these (whatever that may be) they are a great beginner's project.' when in fact the work and time could have been spent building the model you really want.
Jim
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Post by suctionhose on Jan 29, 2022 3:21:07 GMT
Personally, I don't like Minnie because it's a freelance but it has one advantage over more authentic types having a "spur gear differential" over a bevel gear type.
As Jim says, a point like that shouldn't be a reason to build something you don't really like. All models have their challenges so choosing one you love, as Jim says, goes a long way to compensate the pain!
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